Project Lore: Five dudes. Four cameras. One World of Warcraft.

Episode 5.1: Botanica

Comments

By william on Monday, August 11th, 2008 at 12:29 pm

Orctastic 70 BM hunter
love the show keep it up guys doing great

By kate on Monday, August 11th, 2008 at 12:32 pm

I like the addition about talking about class roles, esp u comparing pally vs warrior tanking. Good job guys!

By jimmy on Monday, August 11th, 2008 at 12:56 pm

Yeah great ep, nice and long.

By spanishboi7 on Monday, August 11th, 2008 at 1:36 pm

awsome episode but if u guys finish a part of the episode early i would lov to hear more of that song*goggins* or a new song about a different character

By Bastosa on Monday, August 11th, 2008 at 1:59 pm

You should mention that if you have a priest in your group, you can MC the menders and get a massive spell damage buff for the group. It is amazing!

By Josh on Monday, August 11th, 2008 at 2:07 pm

Really awesome episode guys its first class. I am a warrior tank also and I love the way you explained everything. Sure you could of explained like devastate and everything more but you did a good job on it. Keep it up guys I watch every episode the first day it comes out. I cant wait for 5.2

By Ilishan on Monday, August 11th, 2008 at 2:11 pm

haha, i love the episode

By Chris on Monday, August 11th, 2008 at 2:26 pm

On Pally-tanking vs warrior tanking - the comment made that pally tanking has trouble in longer fights because it relies on mana is, frankly, misleading. Spiritual Attunement at lvl 70 offers 10% of heals back as mana, like reverse rage.

If a warrior tank can’t build any rage (outgears the instance), they can’t generate any threat.

So “game over” for a pally if he has no mana, and “game over” for a warrior if he has no rage.

I would say that your comment would be more correct if you said “if a pally isn’t getting hit by a mob(s), and thus isn’t getting healed, he’ll burn his mana off and soon have trouble.”

By masterinsan0 on Monday, August 11th, 2008 at 2:59 pm

This, I think, was the best episode of Project Lore thus far. It was long enough to be a good chunk of entertainment, informative (I’ve never played a warrior tank so I know little about how they work), and just overall a well-balanced episode. Looking forward to 5.2!

By Ian on Monday, August 11th, 2008 at 3:39 pm

Again with the hole pally vs tanking.
chris is right. my main is a pally tank, and the only time i have trouble tanking is when i am not taking enough damage to be healed. because pally creat agro through holy damage, not only do they have consencreat. a”holy dps aoe” but there is also holy sheild and retrebution arua and advengers sheild.all again making more holy damage.
and also if a pally is getting low on mana he can through on seal wisdom.
as crisis said spirtual attument at 70 is 10% mana heal in to life, i am pritty sure there is some epic gear that makes that go up to 20%
NOW the only realy problem with pally tanks is silence.
is the pally tank is silenced then he cant cast no cast agro starts to fall, now this can be a problem on some bosses that have silnce and stun atacks or both.
well thats my bit in defence of pally tanks.

By Toast on Monday, August 11th, 2008 at 4:16 pm

I have three things to say about this episode:

1) By far the best episode yet

2) In the tank discussion, you completely left out druid tanks. The thing about tanking is this: Paladins are the best AoE tanks (multiple mobs), but lack in the single target tanking field. Druids are the best Single target mobs, but lack in Aoe Tanking. Warriors, on the other hand, are in the middle. They are good at both. I realize that none of you play druids in endgame (alex’s alt doesn’t count yet), but it would still be nice to have some input to hold up for the druids. My druid, who I believe is competenly geared to Lyle, has around 20000 hp and 27000 armor, which is why they make such good tanks.

3) Alex said “on the forums”, which you guys don’t have. Does this mean forums are coming?

By Richard Hein on Monday, August 11th, 2008 at 4:48 pm

Hey guys, good episode - I’m glad you took some input into putting more discussion in the episodes because it rounds it out more and is informative. I’m a druid 70 tank, and didn’t know much about the other tanks ups and downs. For druids as mentioned, we depend on rage to get aggro on multiple targets, constantly using taunts to grab adds. It’s a bit tricky because you have to aggro one by one, unless you use challenging roar which has a long cooldown.

Awesome stuff, keep it up!

By Brian on Monday, August 11th, 2008 at 5:33 pm

Excellent show. Tank talk adds a great new dynamic to the show. More of that please!

By Luke on Monday, August 11th, 2008 at 5:38 pm

Loved the new talk about certain mechanics. Keep up the great stuff.

By Ben on Monday, August 11th, 2008 at 6:13 pm

Level 70 Prot warrior love these shows im a nervous tank and helps me out alot

By craig on Monday, August 11th, 2008 at 8:31 pm

Thank you for the tanking tips. wondering why u never use your sweet 3D monitors on the show. Standing meat shield ftw lol

By Bogdan from Russia on Tuesday, August 12th, 2008 at 4:46 am

You are totally rad dudes… keep it up! :))
shnoooobins

By Doodimadrood on Tuesday, August 12th, 2008 at 6:08 am

Awsome vid. Nice and long 10/10



By Tomcii on Tuesday, August 12th, 2008 at 7:34 am

Hey ^^

I have a rhyme : Ore and a couple more : project lore ^^

By Arkaatix on Tuesday, August 12th, 2008 at 8:03 am

Ok. First of all, all I really want to say is, If a pally tank is tanking a boss, say Gruul, he will NOT run out of mana due to the fact that all paladins have a racial that when you take a heal, if it be overheal or raw heal, you gain mana equal to someod % of that. So please if your going to give out information about my class and spec. Make sure its right!

By Ben on Tuesday, August 12th, 2008 at 8:03 am

lvl 70 nervous tank thanks for these videos help me get over some of my worry while doing heroics awesome keep em coming lov e da show

By Reyson on Tuesday, August 12th, 2008 at 9:50 am

BAD DRDARK! Tankadins really don’t get oom that fast due to spiritual Attunement,which give 10% of the healing you receive back as mana,which in hard fights,is ALOT and OFTEN.Though this only helps for the actual heal,overhealing won’t bring you back mana.Btw lyle seemed very nervous when you were talking about tanks,look at his hands/arms twitching.
The reason why palas aren’t as often seen as tanks is because we need alot more avoidance to be sure not to be crushed,we need 74%(on bosslvls) while warriors are good with 30%(shieldblock) and druids just swallow the crushing blows with their high hitpoints/armor.
And warrior tanks,be afraid,be very avraid because wotlk will give us more threatmoves,for both 1target and 3.+ crushing blows will completly be removed against bosses,only mobs 4lvls higher can crush

By eagle on Tuesday, August 12th, 2008 at 6:17 pm

Hey guys could you please turn down the music and effects? Or turn up the voices?
I’m one of few with a remote control for my PC but still, constanly fiddling with the volume is a bitch.

Normalize it please.

Keep up the entertainment.

By Michael on Tuesday, August 12th, 2008 at 6:26 pm

Wow enough jabs to the face about spiritual attunement, jesus. =P Great episode boys, i like the bit about tanking and all, had some SERIOUS dps going out haha. I’ll probably hit up one of the instance’s in the episode’s you done and just let it play while vent is on.

“EFFTEEDUBLYA DPS”

By Nick Halme on Tuesday, August 12th, 2008 at 8:30 pm

Great episode, once again. Like the other commenters I’d like to see more of that kind of discussion on class roles and skills etc.

For the future, it might be interesting to experiment running a special real-time episode? I appreciate the great editing, but it would be cool to hear the chatter and goings on in say a half hour episode. It sounds counterintuitive but it would actually be less work (no idea about your file size limitations though), just throwing the idea out there. Could have users vote on whether they like the format.

By Egma on Wednesday, August 13th, 2008 at 10:42 am

To many comments to bother reading them all, but they forgot 2 points on paladin tanking.

A) Paladins gain 10% mana for outside heal total so though paladins threat is based on mana generaly the Paladin will have enough mana to be casting up untill the Healer goes OOM if they are tanking…the execption being is if the Paladin runs out while not having threat and so not being healed becuase if not taking damage then they arn’t gaining mana (but if running low that fast and it doesn’t need CC JoW also works well at keeping a Paladins mana up)

B)Paladins also have 2 other forms of threat control that other tanks don’t have, Righteous Fury increases the threat from the Paladins spells (well holy spells but that is all Paladins have) by 60% (90% tank specd) And Blessing of Salvation to reduce threat of everyone else by 30%, though the general “new” mages will want Blessing of Wisdom older ones will know that Salvation will allow them to not have to hold back as much and so know its situational where as a real long fight will be BoW while mage has to hold back more, or in the shorter (pretty much anything non raid) fights BoS to be able to hold back less. same thing goes for rogues just replace BoW with BoM in the said example. Since Righteous Fury is not a blessing the Paladin is free to cast any other useful Blessing on itself to help him tank such as Blessing of Sanctuary to absorb damage, Blessing of wisdom to help mana, Blessing of kings to increase all stats by 10%, etc

Point is Though Paladins argo is tied directly into mana there is a lot a paladin has to be replenishing mana or modifying everyone else threat to keep higher threat then the rest.

By Egma on Wednesday, August 13th, 2008 at 10:47 am

*forgot to add

luckly the Paladin gets to chose what he casts on others and if the new players don’t like the buff they are getting and wanted something else, well to bad the Paladin knows what they want for tanking and like they said tanking and healing are thankless jobs so if the DPS class wants to whine that you are incressing their survivability rather then their DPS because they want to try to have the top DPS oh well let them whine. *Though the mage example BoS rather then BoW would incress their survivability and their total damage since they could do more damage before pulling argo and dying from it.

By Wyrm on Friday, August 15th, 2008 at 6:37 am

Shnoobins.

By Vendethiel on Friday, August 15th, 2008 at 6:29 pm

Hey guys! Lovin the show, jsut a question for Lylelovett..
What addons do you use? Im kinda stuck atm because i hate the standard WoW ui >.< A blog entry just sayin what u use would be nice, thanks
- Vendethiel, 70 night elf warrior of Al’Akir EU

By honorshammer on Sunday, August 17th, 2008 at 7:00 pm

honorshammer
lvl 70 tankadin

i’ve main tanked a lot of 25-40 man raids bosses like Magtheridon.

Check out our videos at honorscode.com to see me tank

By Paikea on Tuesday, August 19th, 2008 at 10:19 pm

That is one HUGE blood elf…..

By Doomstay on Thursday, August 21st, 2008 at 12:10 pm

Love the show guys! My guild’s just getting into doing regular heroic runs and I tossed your site as a good source for them!

Two points I thought of.

First, in the Sarannis fight the adds arrive on a timed basis; the first set arrives after X seconds, then every Y seconds after that. It is therefore possible to take her down before the first adds arrive. All three DPS’rs need to be pumping out over 900 DPS to do it though. I’ve been in groups that have managed it too, so I know it can be done - it’s a major benchmark in power to accomplish.

Second, I’ll second the comments on paladin tanks. The paladin tank is the best aoe tank in the game. It is also the MT for almost every raiding guild on my server because of how much aggro control it manages. No other tank can chain pull like the paladin, something which challenges the conventional wisdom that tanks have mana issues.

By Kwatee on Sunday, August 24th, 2008 at 5:30 pm

WTB talks about druid tanking. Nice job leaving them out QQ

By Tankadin on Tuesday, August 26th, 2008 at 2:48 pm

The tanking discussion is simply laughable. There is essentially no real discussion of mechanics, and the class commentary is not only incredibly superficial, it’s totally wrong!

By Gaiwyn on Thursday, August 28th, 2008 at 5:45 am

Eh, people are just discussing the basics of tanking; give them a break.

I’ve tanked as warrior, druid and paladin. I tanked pretty much every BC heroic as a warrior. I enjoyed playing a prot warrior because you feel as if you are doing quite a bit, with managing heroic strikes and shield slams.

Now that I’ve levelled a paladin (to 62 so far), and have run a lot of heroics with paladin tanks, I would prefer to be a tankadin for WotLK than any other tanking class.

I don’t like tanking with my druid. DPS FTW.

Great episode guys. The addition of class discussion, no matter how simple, is appropriate and adds to the overall appeal of these movies.

You guys rock!

By Adam on Friday, August 29th, 2008 at 10:36 am

Just to add to the pally tanking description you were talking about.
Pallys have a passive so when they get healed they gain mana , so in long fights they dont run out of mana because they will generate mana from getting healed as tanks should be

By Zooni on Sunday, September 14th, 2008 at 8:50 pm

Love the episodes. A good add would be a next button to get to the next episode quick.

By bucket on Monday, September 15th, 2008 at 4:56 am

The big mechanic guys do AOE damage. Be sure that casters are far away enough to not get hit by hit.

With the birds, the humanoid commands them to attack a specific target. If that’s the healer, then trouble! Try to CC the humanoid, so she can’t command then adds.

At the mobs before the boss, the Steward does an arcane flurry. Try to interrupt it (or stun the mob) because it does a lot of group damage.

There’s some nice and solid tank talk in there. A bit a point for noobies is that although the tank does not a lot of _damage_, he generates a lot of threat because of threat modifiers.

Also even though paladins depend on mana, their mana gets regenerated if they get healed. The same mechanic applies to warriors who rely on rage. The warrior needs to get hit quite a bit to generate rage. But yes, in general warriors can last longer.

The adds on the boss only spawn when the boss is not killed before they come. My general strat is to fear them (Intimidating Shout) so there’s time to CC and (re)grab aggro.