Posted by Bastosa on Thursday, December 18th, 2008 - 45 Comments
Tags: 101, avoidance, cap, defense, defense cap, stats, tanking
I got into a bit of an argument with Death knight tank in a PUG raid the other day that make me realize that tanking stats are often misunderstood. This particular tank was convinced that Stamina was the end all be all of tanking stats and that nothing else mattered. This is of course far from the truth, but it got me thinking.
With the introduction of a new tanking class, and the supposed tank shortage in general there are lots and lots of people playing a tank for the first time.
If that’s the case then there lots of people who need to understand tanking stats so that they can gear themselves to be the best tank they can be. With that said I have decided to do a series of blogs discussing the major tanking stats and saying what they mean. Hopefully this will give tanks and non-tanks alike an understanding of what tanks are looking for, and what to look for in a tank!
Today I would like to talk about the stat that everyone is talking about. Defense!
Defense
What is it? Defense is the one that you probably hear the most about. The reason for this is likely because it is the first major cap that up and coming tanks need to hit at level 80. Defense’s role is twofold. First it determines the level at which a mob can critically strike you. Secondly, it adds additional value to your avoidance stats (I’ll get more into that next time).
How Much Do You Need? The reason that 540 is the defense cap is because when you reach 540 defense you can no longer be critically hit by a level 83 mob, and by level 83 mob I mean a raid boss. For every level you take off the mob, you can take 5 points off the max required defense rating to remain uncritable. If you are only running heroics then you really only need 535 defense because the highest level mob you will see there is level 82. If you want to be uncritable against a level 80 mob the you really only need 525 defense.
That being said if you want to raid, you need to push crits off the table. So your number one gearing priority needs to be reaching 540 defense.
You probably noticed during the leveling process that the higher your level, the less defense rating you are actually getting from your items. This is because defense scales with level, and you will need a tremendous amount to make sure you are at the cap at 80 if you are still leveling. Think ahead! Crafted gear is a great place to find defense for reaching that cap.
What is The Real World Raid Application? So we’ve pushed crits off the table, but why is that important? When you take a crit you are taking 200% damage. This is very high spikey damage that is unpredictable and hard to heal through. If a crit gets through and you are not topped of (or even sometimes if you are) you will likely die. Raid bosses can often hit for upwards of 10k on plate, it doesn’t take a mathematician to figure out doubling that damage is very bad. If you die the raid wipes and you are an unpopular person… please resist the urge to blame the healers.
So there is a taste of my first Tanking 101 column. This first one is pretty basic, but please let me know what you think. Next time around I will be covering Avoidance, so stay tuned!
Related Posts: Tanking 101: Stats Part 3: Mitigation, Tanking 101: Stats Part 2: Avoidance, Melee DPS 101 - The Hit Cap, Switching Specs: Is It Worth It?, State of the Death Knight, Two Months In,
By jacob on Thursday, December 18th, 2008 at 12:39 pm
cool first
By jacob on Thursday, December 18th, 2008 at 12:39 pm
REaly awesome m8
By Fergandor on Thursday, December 18th, 2008 at 12:42 pm
Great, is the defence cap the same for druids, pala’s warr’s and dk’s?
By Mr.Vincent on Thursday, December 18th, 2008 at 12:51 pm
This is VERY well put Bastosa, great job.
By Draiken on Thursday, December 18th, 2008 at 1:14 pm
I second Fergandor.
I’ve read somewhere that Druid tanking is more about Dodge than Defense. I mainly focus on DPS, but getting a group is increasingly difficult, so I’m giving tanking a very serious approach.
With all the different types of tank, this “general” guides tend to differ from what you find on posts or whole websites about tanking.
It would be very nice if you could include Class diferences in this posts to benefit more people.
Any way Great Work on this!!!!
By Discomike on Thursday, December 18th, 2008 at 1:16 pm
Great first article! Can’t wait for the follow ups.
By Nylow on Thursday, December 18th, 2008 at 1:19 pm
Excellent! My brother plays a tank, but he doesn’t get the same amount of game time that I do. So, he usually asks what he should be aiming for. Thanks for the numbers. I will be sure to keep this in mind.
By Ilfirin on Thursday, December 18th, 2008 at 1:20 pm
Bast you rock so hard! I just got my prot warrior to level 80, but I’m still new to end-game stuff and I really needed someone to lay it all out for me like this.
By Manifesto on Thursday, December 18th, 2008 at 1:21 pm
“please resist the urge to blame the healers.”
I will definitely be quoting you on this one.
By Larna on Thursday, December 18th, 2008 at 1:21 pm
This is pretty awesome considering I just rolled a paladin to see what the tanking scene is like (also, this gives me the chance to try out a none-squishy healer if the mood strikes me, as well).
Your blogs, plus other guides and such on the interwebs, will certainly make the building process easier since I have always played dps toons before.
Great work, Bast.
By Ironhoof on Thursday, December 18th, 2008 at 1:29 pm
Druid tanks need less defense rating that warriors/paladins/death knights. And you can tank really well with defense rating under the cap. Druid tanks have massive armor and huge dmg reduction (some even reach -75% dmg), crits are nasty but if you have enough stamina you can get out of that alive. The biggest hit i have ever had to hold was around 10k (crit) in SSC at Hydros. For other classes i say that defense rating cap is VERY important, but for druids ( in my opinion) it’s not the end of the world without it.
By Carth on Thursday, December 18th, 2008 at 1:31 pm
One of the things I was confused about when i was trying to gear up for tanking BC raids was the distinction between defense rating and defense. I was told you needed 490 defense to be capped, and at the time I thought this an impossible feat because I thought I needed 490 defense RATING.
I don’t know if anyone else was ever confused about this, but for new tanks that may be confused like I was, the 540 defense you need to be uncrittable by a raid boss is the defense stat you see on your character sheet. To accomplish this at level 80 you need approximately 690 defense RATING from gear, enchants and gems.
Sorry for the long post, you did great on covering the basics of defense
By PatrickD on Thursday, December 18th, 2008 at 1:36 pm
“please resist the urge to blame the healers.”
On behalf of healers everywhere… Thank you.
By Cilraaz on Thursday, December 18th, 2008 at 1:38 pm
Druid tanking is slightly different. Any smart Druid will have the talent Survival of the fittest, which reduces your chance to be crit by 6%. This removes your chance to be crit by raid bosses.
Specifically, the reason 540 is the defense skill number to hit is because that is the point you receive -5.6% chance to be crit. This is a +3 level mob’s crit chance. So if you have a talent that reduces chance to be crit, it in turn reduces the required amount of defense needed.
Those having trouble becoming “crit immune” can also rely on resilience to reduce chance to be crit. To be crit immune, the reduction in chance to be crit from defense and resilience together must be greater than 5.6%.
By Drygo on Thursday, December 18th, 2008 at 1:52 pm
this is a very helpful and awesome column
when they implement the dual-spec in the future, i plan to take my fury war. and get him a prot. spec, i originally planned on having a fury warrior, since i like doing DPS but im a terrible rogue, but then i realized that it is ALOT easier to get a group for something as a warrior if you can tank, i honestly had no idea what that meant i had to do, i just figured that it should be a prot spec war, but i didnt know the additional things i would have to know for it, so i never switched over to it, this is going to help me and my war alot
=)
By avengen on Thursday, December 18th, 2008 at 2:09 pm
very nice, will be looking forward to more articles
By Santofuego on Thursday, December 18th, 2008 at 2:10 pm
Awsome Bastosa! It’s nice seeing tanking explained step by step. Before I hit lvl 65 waaay back in the BC era everyone had been tight lipped around me, and maybe I was a little hard headed. As soon as I was getting near lvl 70 people began explaining necessary terms, talents and gear. At 70 I began my real first attempts at tanking and raiding. Since then I’ve only grown. I’m now lvl 80, gearing up for Naxx. and I can’t seem to hide from people when they need something tanked.
My suggestion to any would be tank. “Preparation + Opportunity = Luck”. This is a formula anyone should live by. I find myself asking the same question over and over again. “How can I better improve myself today.” from there I go forward. Onward my tanking brothers and we will conquer!
-El Santofuego
By Kris ! :D on Thursday, December 18th, 2008 at 2:13 pm
Just the information i needed since im making my main a tank @ 80 ;P thx alot, and GL with the next column
By Lasher on Thursday, December 18th, 2008 at 2:40 pm
@ Carth - indeed I was confused by this defense/defense rating thing, thanks for clearing it up.
I count myself among those first to ever tank. I have a level 72 DK , specced blood. Tanked Utgarde today, it went pretty good, only 1 death in the group, at Ingvar.
By Tsosietank on Thursday, December 18th, 2008 at 2:42 pm
Just wanted to point a few things out
I am know that you kinda covered this, but i want to make sure all new tanks realize this
540 is NOT defense cap, it is Defense Min or Crit Immune
Please let me explain, cap, means that anything over that number will not do anything to advance your character. The more defense you have over 540 you will have more avoidance. Think of 540 as a starting block, that is why i have always called it Def. Min. All tanks need this min to allow save passage for a raid.
If you are having trouble reaching that number you can always add Resilience, that adds a chance to avoid Crits as well. If your total Crit avoidance is 5.6% you are good to go. Only problem with Resilience is that it does NOT add avoidance.
By Farsythe on Thursday, December 18th, 2008 at 2:59 pm
Great that you are doing this ”101” on tanking, i always wondered what stats a tank should have, especially since i usually just do dps or heal, who knows, maybe tanking is the thing for me.
By Zerbet on Thursday, December 18th, 2008 at 3:41 pm
More, please.
By Curio on Thursday, December 18th, 2008 at 4:50 pm
Yes defense is the stat DKs, Palas and Warriors have to push before they start heroics and raids, and the most important tanking stat at first since you can’t tank without it. Druids have a huge advantage there now, no worries about defense. Add to that their armor and stamina buffs, and they’re extremely versatile. Just have to switch cloak, rings and trinkets around, and they can maximize stamina for casters and elementals, mitigation and/or avoidance for melee, and get more of either than either a pally or a warrior could (I’m not too familiar with DKs). Not sure if there is something that balances this out that I haven’t noticed, but I as a warrior notice that the way I can adapt to different bosses is extremely limited compared to a druid, and I don’t see any big damage reduction advantage warriors have over druids anymore—none at all, in fact, for druids that know how to gear.
Stamina is of course important. It’s the only thing that helps against magic, it helps control burst damage, and it helps survivability without healing (more important on some bosses than others) but other than that, I really see it as something that loses importance once it’s at a comfortable level for the content you’re raiding. More important becomes the task of reducing the amount of damage you take, and healing you need—aside from the actual tanking, I see this as the main job a tank needs to do well. Of course, it can be fine for an OT to just stack stamina for most raids, but not an MT.
Looking forward ot more articles on the subject.
By jhez on Thursday, December 18th, 2008 at 5:47 pm
please post more (is going forst when his Dk hits 80)
By Marth on Thursday, December 18th, 2008 at 6:43 pm
Thanks for doing These blogs, as a person new to the game I decided to roll a warrior as my first toon, and upon hitting lvl 60 I respeced Prot to try and do some tanking and I have no Idea what I am doing
By Albrechtae on Thursday, December 18th, 2008 at 11:58 pm
This is perfect timing, Bastosa! Just two days ago I decided to take a bit of a detour off the trail of spellcasters and try a Human Warrior. She’s only level 9 so far, and I am finding it very difficult to… well… stay alive. I was hoping to one day make her a great tank, and these blogs will definitely help because I don’t know the first thing about warriors, melee or tanking!
Cheers!
- Alb.
By Alayea on Friday, December 19th, 2008 at 12:06 am
I heartily agree with the other posts above. Thank you for covering some of the basics for tanking. I decided to roll a death knight and I’m hoping to eventually have my own tank (I’ve only done DPS and heals as far back as I can remember).
As mentioned by Draiken and others, I think that you will need to go in-depth for your next post on tanking. I know, it’s supposed to be more of a “in general” sort of thing, but I’m already confused about the defense thing. The way I view it, “defense” is more of a category than a specific term. You have defense, but are you talking regular defense, defense rating, resistances…?
But anyway, definitely a good start on the topic of what a basic tank needs.
By Flawar on Friday, December 19th, 2008 at 12:16 am
“please resist the urge to blame the healers.”
as a healer myself, when running with poorly geared tanks, its not the tanks that blame us its a dps’rs who dont understand “tanking” and “healing”
if they tank loses aggro, they blame the tank, even if it could be there own fault such as the many bosses who have aggro wipes…
if the tank dies, they automatically blame the healers, saying your mana is full, theres no reason for the tank to have died…
I just think everyone should play a tank or healer in end game to see the non “pewpewpew” is about, most dps’rs only look at there procs / buffs / and recount durring heroics and raids, its annoying
By Vozzy on Friday, December 19th, 2008 at 1:19 am
Thank you for this Bastosta! Although I don’t plan on working on my dk for a while, when I DO I plan on making him a tank and this series you are coming out with will help greatly. :]
By iplaydruid :) on Friday, December 19th, 2008 at 3:15 am
For all who didnt know druids do not need def rating if they have the talent which reduces mob hit % i think it is.
By Grushnarok on Friday, December 19th, 2008 at 4:03 am
Thanks Bast this was really helpfull for me because I rolled a death knight and plan to go tanking with him.
Keep up the good work mate
By Davisu on Friday, December 19th, 2008 at 4:18 am
Great Job ast, im looking forward to seeing your blogg im a palla tank myself and its been good to get back to raiding again with my guild we have cleared 7 bosses in naxx and done sarth were ranked 21st on my server, Tanking is my passion and i love doing it i dont think i will ever do anything ealse i will maybe 1 day role a shammy healer but thats a very big maybe lol keep the blogg comeing m8
Davisu
Bronzebeard (EU)
By Falcon on Friday, December 19th, 2008 at 8:28 am
Had an argument with a Warrior, we bought out 4 things, and tried to figure out what order would be appropriate.
My idea was - Defense, Dodge, Armor, Stamina, due to the fact that 1st, u cant be crit, then, the mob can hardly hit you, then if u get hit, it wouldn’t be that much and then u need stamina, to live through.
His idea was - Stamina, Defense, Armor, Dodge, bc he thought the more Stamina you have, the longer you stay up. That may be problematic, if your healers burn through their mana in a fight bc u get hit for loads every single time.
By Hellrage on Friday, December 19th, 2008 at 9:45 am
Ty for the tip! im new to tanking so any kind of info is really helpful
By Noblehero on Friday, December 19th, 2008 at 12:26 pm
Thank you for the post! AND this is not only meant for tanks, dps and healers MUST also upgrade their gear with every possible benefits like: Enchanting, leatherworking etc.
Oh yes! If you are leatherworker (Possibly Druid Tank), you’re more than blessed especially with this Fur Lining - Stamina!
By Kaiou on Friday, December 19th, 2008 at 4:29 pm
It’s really stuff that anyone could find out if they want to (except perhaps the warrior tank that kept talking about 550 defense to be the cap).
T’is rather a shame some people don’t do any research before jumping into something, compared to a DPS or a healer, a tank needs a bit more attention paid to stats and gear, in my opinion. I didn’t start tanking HC’s untill I had 535 defense, and I think it was the right choice.
Druids have it easy, using Survival of the Fittest, they don’t need any defense at all, lucky bastards.
That’s kind of countered by the fact it’s a little harder to gear a druid properly - they can only really benefit from dodge
And yes, defense gives them a slight benefit, but not as much as paladins and warriors gain from it. DK’s can’t Block so defense(above 540, DK’s are NOT druids! ;)) is only so-so useful.
Oh well good read, was getting kind of boring reading the non-technical blogs all the time.
By Christian on Friday, December 19th, 2008 at 5:56 pm
Great post!
Here are a couple more references that might be helpful for a tank..
http://www.tankspot.com — Probably the best site out there for tanks of any kind. Great forums, naxx guides, great community
http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/ — Great pally tank forum. In my opinion not as good as tankspot as it is important to learn from tanks of other classes.
http://thebigbearbutt.com/2008/12/16/an-open-letter-to-a-death-knoob/ — Fantastic blog post about DK tanks, the dearth of good ones and why.
http://4haelz.blogspot.com/2008/12/whiskey-tango-foxtrot-operation-dead.html — Less sarcastic DK tanking guide.
Hope this helps any new tanks out there.
By Henkm on Saturday, December 20th, 2008 at 3:23 am
Thanks for this blogg, I have warrior and DK and my plans for them is they both should be tankers as our guild needs more tankers and our servers aswell in general.
But Iam new on this stuff so this blogg is much appricated so I can learn to tank and hopefully be a good one day.
Appricate the links from the rest of you guys here aswell so I know where to start atleast.
By Gilnid on Saturday, December 20th, 2008 at 2:05 pm
No worries Bast. As a dps I would never blame a healer for a wipe. Its always the tank
By Doogin on Saturday, December 20th, 2008 at 10:12 pm
Sounds like u might need to lay off Manny. Lol oh and Bast you are boss. That is all.
By Hatell on Saturday, December 20th, 2008 at 11:59 pm
540 defense is the cap for all classes. Just be sure that what you’re putting on doesn’t also say “to shield” if you’re DK or Druid. XD Friend did that, ran an instance as a tank. Not a happy camper when I pointed that out to him on inspection. So if your class doesn’t use a shield, be sure to get gear that doesn’t say “add defense to shield” in it.
Wonder if Dodge (not the truck) or Parry is next. Might be a nice idea to do them together. Though I’m still new to learning some of this myself, but as a healer, I took it upon myself to learn the dynamics of tanking to some degree. So if I have to PUG heal I can adequately blame the tank or myself. XP
By Ranger Joel on Sunday, December 21st, 2008 at 1:05 pm
What item has ‘defense to shield’ on it? Items add block value to shield but not defense. (not that I’ve ever seen, read about, or a search of wowhead turned up).
Bears have the talent to make them crit immune. DKs are the hardest tanks to reach this level because they don’t have a shield to stack stats on. They also don’t benefit from any pally/war gear that has shield block rating.
Also, should be noted that 535 is the crit immune goal for heroics, which can help you pick up that 1 piece of gear to get you over the 540 mark if you are limbo.
After 540 most tanks will find the rating going up to the high 500’s or low 600’s and will be able to gem and enchant differently as they fill out their T7 sets. The extra points add to your avoidance (block, dodge, parry).
For pally tanks the next stat after 540 to aim for is getting block capped. Which is the level at which you block every attack that hits you - the rest are either misses, parried, or dodged. This mitigates large chunks of damage. Approximately 1000 per hit if you keep holy shield up all the time. Over a boss fight or through a damage spike this can have a large impact survivability and/or healer mana pools.
Great intro to the topic, I would also recommend several of the sites listed above - great tools for tanks there.
By Sidias on Tuesday, December 23rd, 2008 at 5:37 am
New DK tanks seem to be the most clueless.
I was trying to level my disc priest by doing instances but after reaching 74 I switched to shadow.
Upon joining a group I would inspect the “tanks” gear only to see them stacking crit and stam with maybe one or two pieces with defense usually coupled with a dps build. I would push through in fear of looking like a prima donna if I mentioned their lack of acceptable tanking gear.
It amazes me that I have to tell tanks that they aren’t geared or speced properly or that I have to tell that ret pally that they can heal themselves (art of war) etc.
On top of all of that the “screw cc” mentality is way more prevalent with the advent of easy mode aoe tanking making the healers job that much more stressful.
I’ll eventually go back to healing once I get the bad taste out of my mouth.
By Rhyndon on Tuesday, December 23rd, 2008 at 12:37 pm
Great Advice. I always find myself in a bind trying to decide between gear. Do I go for Armor or Stamina? Strength or attack power? I wish I knew how much of one stat equaled another.
By Xalaa on Saturday, August 8th, 2009 at 10:55 am
Tanks lyle(lol) now i should look for more defense once i hit 880 (i’m fury for leveling and i’m gonna switch to prot)
I love tanking, except its not good for leveling
Which sucks cause Tanking> DPSing
Tanking>healing