Posted by iTZKooPA on Friday, May 15th, 2009 - 34 Comments
Tags: blizzard poster, blues, bornakk, Druid, human racial, item nerfs, profession discussion, profession nerfs, qq as a function of nerfs, Rogue, stealth, stealth detection nerfs
Blizzard Poster Bornakk announced a new nerf to the engineering profession, although it is not the main focus of the nerf. According to Bornakk, items with Stealth Detection were being used in unintended ways - way past their ilvl in many cases - in an effort to get an advantage, or equal footing, inside the Arenas. Rather than try and rebalance the offending items, Blizzard has nerfed any and all items with a hint of stealth detection on them.
If you have been participating in the Arenas while sporting anything but Ultra-Spectropic Detection Goggles or an engineering helm, then you will still posses some stealth detection. The catch is that it isn’t enough stealth detection to justify what you lose for equipping the item anymore. The former item is no longer usable in Arenas, while the latter group has had their detection removed entirely, a choice that has engineers up in arms. One passionate tinkerer exclaimed, “would you PLEASE just remove the profession.” And if you didn’t hit the link up top, the changes have already been implemented. A tooltip update is incoming as part of the next minor patch.
My main is a rogue engineer so I am actually on both sides of the camp. From a rogue standpoint, we are almost ecstatic because we can now sneak in for our openers with a lower chance of being seen. Of course, rogue battles versus humans and their pesky passive stealth detection racial ability will still annoy us, especially rogue versus human rogue. As an engineer, the nerf lowers the profession’s utility further. The helm that was crafted specifically for the Arena (or early raiding) is now useless with no inkling of an incoming buff to make up for its loss.
I’m not going to go on a QQ rant over a single item though, especially since I don’t Arena enough on Solidsamm to care. Instead, I will QQ over the professions in general. Let’s not try to make professions all homogeneous like we did with raid buffing, as some players in the thread are suggesting. In my opinion, each profession should offer their own special utility. Blacksmiths can make their own gem slots, jewelcrafters have their rings, leatherworkers had their drums, etc.
To me, engineering has always been about fun items, the Battle Chicken, the Harvest Reaper, the ROFLCopters. We still have some of that but it’s much less prevalent. Wrath removed our collection of amusing gizmos and replaced them with recipes that are a requirement for all Arena engineers. Essentially changing the role for an engineer from ‘humorous accessory user’ to that of a ’stealth detector.’ Now that role-changing item has been removed, and you wonder why we freak out? You can’t give someone candy and then take it away, not even if they get in your van.
Which side are you on, or do you not PvP enough to care about the discussion one way or another?
Related Posts: WoW Life Lesson #11: Things Are Always Easier With A Good Group, A Rogue’s Bloody, Stealthy Journey, Stack, Green, Raids Nerfed To The Ground!,
By germ508 on Friday, May 15th, 2009 at 12:33 pm
I’m not sure but it seems like engineering was always a
alt toon profession, I’ve never found much use for it
myself, as far as PvP goes, rogues always seemed to have the upper hand sooo, idk whats best for them.
By Trian on Friday, May 15th, 2009 at 12:37 pm
In my oppinion they shouldnt nerf those items.`
My main is a hunter so i have no problem getting those rogues down but still stunlock sucks so i think they shouldnt ban them from arenas
By The Void Man on Friday, May 15th, 2009 at 12:50 pm
Once again Rogues win!
QQ Rant starting in 3, 2, 1……….
QQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ
By Sanctys on Friday, May 15th, 2009 at 12:50 pm
If an item is being viewed as an unfair advantage in a player versus player environment, sure take it out.
But I agree, they should balance it out with something else instead of completely raping it of it’s usefulness.
By Grido on Friday, May 15th, 2009 at 1:16 pm
Being on a PVP server, engineering has helped me a number of times from getting ganked by a rouge. In Arena’s fair enough.
PVE here I come.
By Carlos on Friday, May 15th, 2009 at 1:51 pm
Agree with Sanctys.
So Blizzard… MOAR ROFLCOPTERS PL0X!
By cocopuff on Friday, May 15th, 2009 at 3:23 pm
and the rich get richer i dont do much arenas but i allways look out for a chlange from a fellow player and i can tell you the stun locks are annoying bieng a melee dps i cant slow the rogue down adn then run way i wish i was a drui uand get stealph and stun locks of my own i wish i had bubbles to sheld mefrom the locs but i dont
all i have is a 3 minute cooldown ability that amkes me imune to stuns for 15 saconds and cant even use while i am stuned and once i get unstuned it is prity much useless as i am near death and the rogue has his oisons on me
By cocopuff on Friday, May 15th, 2009 at 3:56 pm
i to agree with sanctys but on a diffrent note if you’re a rogue i may not seem fair to you that someone with a high stealph detection can spot you coming from a mile way and tear you to bits but i bet you dont mind taht you can sneak up tp a person and show both of these swords maces deggers axes what ever before the stun lock even wears of or get teh person close to it i dont hear you complaining about that i never like stealph and probably never will unless its gets nerfed like make the move mentt speed realy slow and cant use any movent speed powerups then i will like it a bit mpre i mean it is coompletly un fair the rogue gets to choose when to attack whear attack from and most o the time gets the first attack witch usauly is a davastating ambush a cheap shot or a garrote gives am which can then be followed by a kidney shot stunning you for another 5 saconds if your lucky you will still have half of your healph left so you decrease stealph detection that is fine but you now put rogue in an even bigger unfair advantage the warlocks fear poses a similar problem but i can deal with taht easy atleast for now why dont you decrease the shodow resistance the players have make teh fear last longer or mosre sufficient why dont you put warlocks up thier on the padestol right with rogues and next to paladins the three can rule wow while the other classes rot in thier dust i cant evven count how many times i had a pally near death and then he bubbles and heals fully and what do i have just a stupid spell that heals be for berly anything and i lose my ghoul after that just seems like the three “supreme” classes are smackdown in the middle of all the buffs and all the classes have to jump just to get a bone the said thing is the bone is a nerf and it looks like we have coughtt another bone lets see how long we can gnal on it and if you feel you must have a class that is above all others why not make a cool class taht class no offense to any of teh three “supreme” classes they might take my bone away
By onthebuses on Friday, May 15th, 2009 at 4:44 pm
I couldn’t agree with cocopuff so much, everything that is mentioned in the above comment is true, in PVP, which i enjoy alot, the number of times i have been literally ambushed by sometimes upto 5 rouges, and im dead before even having a chance to do anything, i mean you can only use the ability to stop things that cause loss of control of your toon, as it has a cooldown, so by this time, your dead. Rouges have it good enough, already, infact whilst i have nothing against rouge players, they are good, but there on to too much of a good thing, here, i mean ffs all they need to do is hunt in packs, and attack where they want, when they want, this simply isnt fair. A hunter practicly has no chance of escaping from rouges, as melee isnt there strong point. Blizz I urge you for the sake of everyone nerf rouges, and stop picking your own favorite classes. And basically crapping all over the other classes.
By onthebuses on Friday, May 15th, 2009 at 4:45 pm
Edit: I couldnt agree with cocopuff more
By Lladnar of The Dark Menace (Detheroc) on Friday, May 15th, 2009 at 4:57 pm
Good…fewer engineers to undercut me on the AH =)
By mthrl on Friday, May 15th, 2009 at 5:41 pm
WTB punctuation
By robingtons on Friday, May 15th, 2009 at 6:31 pm
tbh pre wotlk king they were useful. i have both tanking googles and dps and have 2 say if i see a rogue its cause their pve, and dont have points in improved stealth the googles are pretty much useless for detecting rogues
having said that rogue versus rogue mite seem an unfair advantage but i think blizzard themselves said “pvp doesnt revolve around 1 v 1″
By Slyfanitor on Friday, May 15th, 2009 at 6:53 pm
I don’t have engineering and the extremely rare cases in which I do PvP is BG’s so sorry to say, I don’t give a crap about this :/
By Dan on Friday, May 15th, 2009 at 8:20 pm
I am pissed I ever picked up engineering. I thought the custom mounts were cool( this was in BC so back then it was just the flying mount) and when they announced the ‘Hog’ i was excited about another custom mount only a us Engineers would have access to.
I learned an important lesson, Blizzard hates engineering. Plain and simple. I am looking to drop it soon because there is no point in having it. Once I’ve learned the Engineering only pets it can consider itself unlearned.
By Nomzz on Friday, May 15th, 2009 at 10:18 pm
@cocopuff
Re-roll if you think a class is OP. Giving DKs an even worse name
Anyways, the nerf isnt really justified. I mean, I might nerf a few items, but not everything with detection in game. Just ridiculous.
By Dieoxide on Friday, May 15th, 2009 at 11:18 pm
Not into PvP much so don’t really care, nor am I an engineer. But when I used to be an engineer, that “buff” was a nice commody for the goggles, but not the reason I was making it, I made it for the early raiding even tho my guild’s warrior tank (Main I think now) still wears his level 72 goggles. I swear there’s better ones, but Schlag likes his sunglasses so we don’t see his eyes … stoner, lol
By Lil ole me on Saturday, May 16th, 2009 at 3:49 am
I have 2 engineers. My first was my dwarven paladin, whom had use of it, but it was more for the novelty of it all. When I later re-rolled a hunter, I found that bullets and arrows, as well as guns, were pretty handy, so I made another engineer. However, engineering has become pretty vanilla lately… It is as you say: Where is the fun stuff? We have the exploding bunnies, but that is about it. Where are the teleporters for WOTLK? How about new seaforium charges? Oh, wait, there is like hardly any locked door or chest in Northrend… I’d also like to see some improved goggles. I like the goggled look, it makes my blood elf chick look cool.
In the end, I keep engineering because I just don’t want to level up another tradeskill… But if I had the time and patience, I’d drop it for something a bit more useful…
By Sardit on Saturday, May 16th, 2009 at 5:19 am
anyone noticed that alchemy isn’t even mentioned by our blogger… thats exactely how usefull it is. Utter nonsense to have except as a way to save on some cash if you happen to rely heavily on potions / elixers.
We have 0 usefull items, there used to be these trinkets, but their stat boost is so low its hard to even consider equipping them even if they will grant 40% more gains from potions that you drink during the fight.
The only other positive side to it is the fact that elixers & flasks get the double duration from the passive it gives. But then thats just an other cash saver, and in the end if you don’t take herbalism and spend at least 1 hour a day grinding for the herbs you won’t save that much cash at all, since mat prices in the ah are through the roof.
I feel for the engineers out there, i know it sucks to be stuck with a profession you invested a ton in and see it rendered useless. I say lets just nerf JC Inscription Blacksmiths, Leatherworking and Tailoring aswell !!
By Sardit on Saturday, May 16th, 2009 at 5:25 am
@Cocopuff
You are rolling a DK, if there ever was an overpowered classin in WOW its yours…. If you fail to destroy other classes it’s more likely a wrong spec on your side or a matter of using the wrong abilities. DK’s can wipe the floor with basically anything thrown at them.
By Jesus on Saturday, May 16th, 2009 at 7:02 am
Has any
By Jesus on Saturday, May 16th, 2009 at 7:03 am
Cocopuff u f-ing idiot. Have u every heard of something called a dot, exclamation mark, question mark etc? Jesus!
By cocopuff on Saturday, May 16th, 2009 at 12:44 pm
i did i just dont bother its not so easy to re-roll classes do all the beginner quest all teh stress of leveling again just isnt taht fun for me
By cocopuff on Saturday, May 16th, 2009 at 7:57 pm
i hit 80 on m mage 2 hours ago heriocs here i come
By Rhev (Koopa's GM) on Saturday, May 16th, 2009 at 9:47 pm
Engineering is completely fucking broken and I’d drop it if I hadn’t been a goblin engineer for over 4 years now.
I fucking hate bliz sometimes… and rogues… especially you Koopa.
/wrists
By Shnoo on Sunday, May 17th, 2009 at 12:52 pm
@ Cocopuff lrn to pop AoE’s… i destroy DK’s like you on my rogue because they pop 1 DaD expecting me to walk in there… and when i dont go in they go out.. and BAM… no more DK. and Stealth has been nerfed.. numerous times… Rogues, right now are one of the most underpowered classes in game. (I am not being biased I have 3 80s and 5 other 40+ char). just because a rogue in full epics manages to destroy a undergeared DK doesn’t mean they need to be nerfed. So stfu and learn to play before you QQ.
By cocopuff on Sunday, May 17th, 2009 at 6:27 pm
thier is a 15 sacon window when my aoe is under CD so that a big period to strike my cousin lets me play his 80 geared rogue today i spenbt the whole day kicking horde ass i killed shamans i killed druids i killed hunters a i killed warriors i killed pallys even and ya i killed DK’s i am still earning how to play a rogue but it does not take a genious to figure out get behind teh target and cheap shot or ambush mutilate tehn cheap shot repture and evenom aand spam mutilate some tiemes i had to go the extra mile but most of teh time that was enough and these guys were no joke either
By cocopuff on Sunday, May 17th, 2009 at 6:29 pm
so dont talk to me about underpowred cause a rogue with a correct stratagy can own any class but thier a diffrence between skill and just plain unfair advantage and this nerf is gointo make it worse
By lawman30 on Sunday, May 17th, 2009 at 7:58 pm
I’ve never played arena. I play on a PvE server. I can honestly say that I’ve NEVER had a use for any stealth buff on any of the engineering stuff I make. To that end, I can’t care about this one way or the other…
ON THE OTHER HAND if this causes Blizz to drop a buff on some other stuff or even give us some cool items (where the f is my portable anivl/forge anyway?!?!) then I’m all for it. If nothing new is in the cards the “HEY BLIZZ…QUIT F’ING THE PVP GANG…THEY’RE GETTING TIRED OF IT!!!”
By Wonocva on Monday, May 18th, 2009 at 10:12 am
Well personally, I’m kind of into everything, but that’s mostly due to rep and achievements that I need. I’m not a fan of PvP as much as everyone else is.
But regardless, the discussion on professions itself mentioned in the thread. I have one thing to add.
Why even bother to keep professions that seem to have one time uses anyways? I mean, sure, I guess Blacksmithing has the Belt Buckle and the epics are REALLY hard to replace, even in Ulduar 25 man or whatever, but as far as I’m concerned, and I’ve always seen it this way, having a profession that basically just makes a crap ton of armor is pointless. You’re going to replace it anyways.
Thusly, I never have or will be a Blacksmith or Tailor (unless to compliment Enchanting) or Leatherworker. And on that note, Engineering also appears to just have some cool little gear pieces, a mount (Whoop-de-doo?) and a bunch of random “stuff” that do “stuff”. Right then.
As far as I’m concerned, the four best professions in this game, due to their usefulness at all times, at any level (end game of course) are Enchanting, Inscibing, Jewelcrafting, and Alchemy.
Enchanting is obvious. Inscribing is nice too, and you get awesome shoulder enchants for yourself. Jewelcrafting and Alchemy should also be obvious.
In all honesty, I’ve always looked at the other professions compared to these four and said “Why even bother going for the others for such a minor benefit?”
Just an opinion, but my mind’s never changed and I doubt it will anytime soon, if at all.
By cocopuff on Monday, May 18th, 2009 at 1:18 pm
wonocva do you know taht yiou cuntradicted your self
By Daywind on Monday, May 18th, 2009 at 1:38 pm
I don’t PvP. This is largely for the same reason Dorkins gave, “I don’t like to lose”. However It’s been my experience that many people who do like to PvP complain about it almost continuously, while those who display talent tend to succeed, regardless of class.
I just picked up engineering for my new hunter alt and I’m having a lot of fun with it (BYO bullets!) I lack the patience for AHing my profession products so I basically make stuff for my own use.
The way I see it is nerf away Blizzard. If the PvP forum flame squad don’t get something new to whine about every week they might have to come to terms with the fact that they’re being beaten by better players, not a game imbalance.
@cocopuff
Deliberately misspelling words like stealph(stealth) and sacon (I presume second?) doesn’t make you cute or clever. It makes you look like a rambling idiot. I couldn’t interpret any of your first post and didn’t bother trying with any of the subsequent ones. I don’t expect perfection, but an unpunctuated column of non-words and giberish makes a very poor argument and only furthers the stereotype of the sore loser/bad PvPer.
By Wonocva on Monday, May 18th, 2009 at 11:31 pm
@cocopuff
No. No, I do not believe I contradicted myself really.
If you would like to explain how YOU think I contradicted myself, please do so. Hopefully I can read it and understand why you think this way.
The only thing I could see is “professions with one-time uses”, and what I meant was that once you get above the gear, you don’t need it ever again. Blacksmithing, Tailoring, and Leatherworking all leave you with minor buffs to put on specific pieces of your own gear and maybe a few extra things only.
Let’s look at the other professions. Enchanting. You can enchant most pieces of gear with a large selection of enchants at level 80, plus your own rings. Even if you replace your gear, you can re-enchant it. It’s basically there whenever you need it. Same thing with Jewelcrafting, just socket your new gear with the large amount of gems you have access to at 80, alchemy always has it’s large amount of higher-level potions and elixirs for buffs, and inscription is always useful for re-glyphing, which can happen sometimes.
These four don’t seem to “dry up” as I think the other three do. Once you pass the gear threshold, the only things left are the few extra benefits. Throughout your leveling and raiding or PvPing or whatever you do, there’s always a large amount of different things in the professions I like that can be used. The main attraction of the other three is basically the epics, with the minor benefit of self-service that is limited to one or two things only.
By Wonocva on Tuesday, May 19th, 2009 at 12:07 am
Ah, my apologies. I said that they’re beneficial at any level (end game of course), right? That was my mistake. What I meant to say by that was that they are beneficial at any level and all throughout end-game, unlike the gear professions which lose almost all of their meaning once you surpass or have your epics from the patches or expansions. Sure they’re useful leveling, but leveling isn’t nearly as long as the actual end content you do, which anyone should be able to realize, and once it’s done, you never do it again on that character.
Sure, go ahead. Become a Blacksmith. Fun right? Alright, now you’re in all Ulduar 25 man gear. Now what? Oh, you can but some extra sockets on any higher gear you get, or your PvP gear, sure. Get some keys, yeah, that’s nice. Use some little extra bonuses for your weapons and shields, okay.
That’s it.
Okay, now become an alchemist. Fun? Now you’re in Ulduar 25 man gear. Now what? Keep pumpin’ out those elixir and potion buffs that everyone wants. You benefit your own damage/tanking/healing as well as your teammates.
Here’s my point:
The amount of help and benefits you can recieve from Inscribers, Alchemists, Enchanters, and Jewelcrafters is phenominal, not to mention their own little quirks. Blacksmiths, Leatherworkers, Tailors, and Engineering? Not so much.
My main problem with the whole thing is that a profession that’s almost completely focused around gear, of all things, just seems so pointless to me.