Posted by Amatera on Wednesday, November 25th, 2009 - 13 Comments
Tags: Achievements, arena, battlegrounds, cataclysm, expansion, PvP, ranks, rated, titles
Today I PvP just about as much as I did several years ago, which is to say not very much at all. But I did partake in the occasional Battleground and earned myself the meager rank of Sergeant before the ability to do so was taken away in Burning Crusade. Sure, the Arena system has its own set, but I know I can’t be the only one out there who misses the chance to win titles for good old “regular” PvP. Plus, you could get access to some pretty cool loot in the process!
Blizzard has apparently been listening, and stated today on the official forums that they might just be bringing them back with the rated Battleground system being introduced in the expansion. According to Zarhym in a series of posts:
In Cataclysm, we plan to make the old PvP titles available based on your performance in our upcoming rated Battleground system, similar to the current Arena titles which are based on your performance in the Arenas. Keep in mind, however, that Cataclysm is still relatively early in the development stages and this information is subject to change. We’ll have more on the rated Battleground system and associated rewards in the months ahead…
I’m going to clarify my original post, as I don’t believe it’s been decided yet whether they’ll be purchased with Arena points or Honor points, or if a specific Battleground rating is the only requirement to unlock them. There are no plans to make these titles available for real-world money…
Of course, some of the quote-unquote “old” PvP community was up in arms over this revelation. And for what reason? We’ve been hearing this excuse a lot lately: because Blizzard is dumbing down the game. But Zarhym insists that the only reason titles were taken away initially was because the system used for earning them was archaic and largely championed time spent over skill. He assures us that this will not be the case with rated Battlegrounds:
We feel they’re going to fit well with the new rated Battleground system. The titles were previously earned through a very cumbersome experience that didn’t necessarily measure a player’s PvP skill. With a new system for measuring performance in the Battlegrounds, we feel it’s a good fit to award the honor titles to those who excel. We do not intend for the top titles to be earned in a trivial manner. It’s going to be quite hard to get High Warlord or Grand Marshal; and not because it’s going to require that someone plays in the Battlegrounds more than everyone else on their realm each week, but because it’s going to require a very impressive win/loss ratio.
To me, it sounds like a bunch of whining from people who think their prestige will be hurt when their “unobtainable” titles suddenly become attainable again and, shock and awe, by people who may have only started playing in the last couple of years. I’m not a fan of making things easier on players either (more fun or more convenient, sure), but I also know how to appreciate skill and if what Zarhym says is true, then it will be hard, if not more difficult to earn titles than it used to be. I think those that are complaining are just afraid they won’t be able to turn it into a pure timesink again.
Regardless of my perspective, I think this would be a wonderful thing to add back into the game. Maybe it’s just because I’ve been playing an awful lot of Modern Warfare 2 lately, but I wouldn’t mind sporting a nice, shiny rank next to my name to show off how awesome I am!
What about you readers? How do you feel about the prospect of PvP titles coming back? Did you participate in the system originally?
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By Heartbourne on Wednesday, November 25th, 2009 at 4:58 pm
I grinded to rank 13 back in the day.
i’m curious how a system where you can’t lose rating works.
By Tharon on Wednesday, November 25th, 2009 at 10:31 pm
If you perform well enough to increase in rating, then HELL YEA, Promotion!!!
Do poorly, and lose rating points, DEMOTED!!!
BGs are basically military warfare, and as such if you perform poorly in the military, you are demoted, after enough write-ups. If you excel, then you will be promoted rather quickly.
By Slyfanitor on Thursday, November 26th, 2009 at 8:20 am
Um didnt they say the PvP titles will be making a comeback like very very very moons ago? Don’t really understand, is this supposed to be some big and huge revelation?
By 4KhazModan on Thursday, November 26th, 2009 at 9:08 am
Will they take away the existing titles? I kind of have mixed feelings about this, I loved having a very rare Corpral title, and am really exited when i PuG with someone else that has it as well. However, now there will be alot of people running around with “Private” through “seargent” all relatively easy to obtain. BTW Amatera, do you have MW2 for 360, PS3, or PC?
By rin on Thursday, November 26th, 2009 at 10:08 am
@ Tharon
i get what your saying but im gonna be brutally realistic and say that if you do poorly in real warfare…you die
By X1 on Thursday, November 26th, 2009 at 12:09 pm
There’s just one problem with this. If it’s based only on a win loss ratio everyone will be a corporal.
I’ve been playing the BGs a lot lately and there are days where you just can’t win. Why? Arena players tip the scales a lot on the win side with their pvp dps and new players tip the scales a lot to the lose side because they can’t take a hit. I see people with 12k to 40k health in the 80 AV, that’s a pretty broad range from crap gear to good gear. There are days the BGs seem to be full of people who don’t know how to win because they simply can’t master the mechanics of the BG they’re in such as EOS and the endless shouting to fight on top of the hills not on the ramp leading up to it or simply the failure to defend in any BG.
What it may cause is people who think they can’t win will drop out so they don’t get a loss ruining any chance for everyone else. There will be more ridiculing of BG noobs because their gear sucks. Guess what, everyone’s gear sucks when they first start it. They need to play a lot of games in that crappy gear to get the good gear. Even then they might not be very good at pvp. Also think of the AV blitz, it will be become the only way to play AV since people are more concerned with winning than honor points.
Maybe it will start making people actually learn how to play a BG and not be one of those follow-along, do what the crowd is doing types. There are a good number of these in every battleground. You know them, you can see them standing around the end map GY in AV everyday while someone runs in and steals the tower that was standing right beside them.
Personally if it was me I wouldn’t base it on win/loss that’s just foolish because a large portion of it is out of the control of an individual player such as popping into an AV game when there’s only 5 reinforcements left and you can’t AFK fast enough. Was it your fault you lost? You didn’t get a chance to do anything.
I would put a weight on actions in each battle ground and award points accordingly. They already give out achievements for a lot of them.
Top 5 healers: 15-11 points
Top 5 damage done 10-6 points
Top 5 HK (not killing blows it’s too random and yes I realize that they give HK to people who stand around and do nothing but at least they were there): 5-1 points
Capturing points: 2 points each
Defending points: 3 points each
That way even in a losing game a person can still shine. If you pop into the middle of a game you can still try for a few title points. The titles would still be something you could grind for but just reset them every four months. If you manage to a get a title every period for four consecutive quarters then you get to keep it permanently. Do the work and get the reward. Don’t give them to the weasels that drop out of every losing game because they’re worried about their win/loss ratio.
By cocopuff on Thursday, November 26th, 2009 at 2:22 pm
forcing players to pvp is just cruel allaince sucks in BGs i dont think you realize how agrovating it is to watch alliance run round like chickens with their head cut of when 5 people charge a palce and its defended by one person on my server pvp is allot more respected then pve
By zylor on Friday, November 27th, 2009 at 1:41 am
I wonder what happens with the old pvp titles. Do i lose mine?
By Egma on Friday, November 27th, 2009 at 3:55 am
I loved the old titles but rated BGs? Ok thats fine and all other then the fact that will mean you will have to do months upon months of unrated BG grinding to fully gear up to enter rated BGs to get something as simple as Private because loses wouldn’t count?… I am hoping that they deside upon adding back the old DHK system and base it upon how much you “help your side” and not based upon whom you are facing against sure killing a Warlord or Knight should get more “rating” towards the next rank then killing say a private/scout but forcing it so you have to do rated BGs to get rankings below knight seems rediculice…
I can see capping at the rank just below Knight without doing rated BGs but I mean Private/Sergent/Master Sergent/ First Sergent should all be unrated from say your HK achievement ranks but to force rated battles for the low ranks is like forcing level 10 toons who just want to BG for xp and to get enough honor to buy some gear for 19 to enter the “twink BGs” that don’t give XP if they want honor marks.
I say if they add this rated BGs the rated BGs should not start till the ranks that you had to reach to enter the Knights Chamber/Champions Hall or whatever they where called, that way the casual PvPers can get the “hey atleast I try” titles while as the hardcore PvPers have to face off for the better ranks, I mean back in the day I was a casual once/twice a week PvPer who had Master Sergent, as a casual PvPer I could get the ranks that “look cool” but not the ranks that are actually rewarding such as good gear. Which is the way it should be again if they do add it back rather then limited the “fun titles” to the hardcore PvPers… let the casuals be Privates/Scouts and Sergents, just make them prove their worth to reach Knight Ranks.
By Urziel on Friday, November 27th, 2009 at 12:14 pm
is blizzard putting a gun to your head cocopuff? No one is forcing you to pvp, or pve or anything for that matter. but if you want that gear or those ranks bad enough you’ll have to do it. plain and simple.
By Amatera on Friday, November 27th, 2009 at 11:40 pm
@4Khaz
I’ve got it for PC.
By Pointeblanc on Friday, December 4th, 2009 at 2:00 pm
A few inexperienced comments here including the OP. Both factions can win with a preform, and frankly that’s what it is going to take to earn these new titles. BG raids are best structured based upon class balance just like PvE raids. The success of the raid will depend upon the raid leader and the willingness of those recruited to follow…this will be the “skill” factor involved. The better preform will win out (or as in most cases..the preform with the better tactician as a leader..will win out).
GUESS WHAT? That’s how the majority of the players got the original rank 14 title (Grand Marshal on the alliance, and High Warlord on the horde)…by creating preforms..and well just winning, and winning and winning. Yes the majority..let’s put an end to the myth that the majority of these players got it illegitimately. By far, most were in fact legit (one player to one toon..not a team of Chinese farmers)..and it wasn’t just my server. Back in the day, the posts regarding server caps in terms of honor were common place across the board on several realms..as were discussions about the “Marshal” groups (organized BG PvP raids with the sole purpose of hitting GM/HWL..through TEAMWORK). Solo farming simply couldn’t compete…plus with preforms it wasn’t necessary to play 24/7..12-16 hours a day was sufficient (I know still pretty horrible anyway..but that was the case).
We actually had whole server communities involved with the process all working together for a common goal ..helping to push those closest to rank 14 along ..so they themselves could get a shot later on. And, the worst thing one could try on our server at the time was to try to “cheat” your way through (having that team playing one toon)..you would have been caught, reported and then banned.
Were the rank 14s of my day the “best of the best” not really..a few were incredible..but most just knew how to play their class and how to work together as a team. They generally “did not suck”, while most of the best PvPers usually stopped, either well before or just after, they got the Commander rank for the epic mount.
As for whining, unless you went through what former rank 14s did..then don’t speculate on our reasons. This title should remain exclusive to those who got it years ago..because this system was the most demanding grind..both physically and mentally ever conceived for a MMORPG. We did what was supposed to be nearly impossible by working together..and nearly fainting from exhaustion in the process. And these titles represented those who have been with the game since year one..I’m all for PvP titles..but with a new PvP system we should have new ranks.
By OomChick on Tuesday, February 2nd, 2010 at 4:22 pm
PvP titles coming back, Great! And /agree with Pointeblanc, new ranks…last ones were army based..what about sea rankings instead? Imagine having Field Marshal/Admiral titles….Although I don’t have an original title, I think its great that there are poeple that can run around with pride with theirs on display showing that they are original PvPers. Wish I had one, and if I did, I wouldn’t really want to share it either. Respect to all that have the high end PvP titles.
That said, I think X1 has a good point to make with the rankings, however sometimes if your guarding a tower that has no combatants, you will be left behind in hk as (opposed to actually just killing randoms on a path) your doing a job for the team…I think it will be difficult to manage a scoring system, but he has a good base to start.