Posted by Juggynaut on Tuesday, December 16th, 2008 - 44 Comments
Tags: avoid, f13, job, job interview, job recruiter, mmorpg, tale
Over at the f13 forums, a poster named Tale told a tale (I couldn’t resist) about a job recruiter in the online media industry who informed him that he was told specifically to avoid WoW players when looking at potential employees. When Tale told him about the positive influences that WoW can have on job performance, the recruiter shook his head. From the original post:
He said there is a belief that WoW players cannot give 100% because their focus is elsewhere, their sleeping patterns are often not great, etc. I mentioned that some people have written about MMOG leadership experience as a career positive or a way to learn project management skills, and he shook his head. He has been specifically asked to avoid WoW players.
Now, I can’t say that I’ve ever gone out of my way in most job interviews to let a potential employer know how many video games I play, but then again I got this gig partially due to my love of one of those games. I suppose that is sort of a special case, though. With 12 Million subscribers worldwide, there are a lot of people that recruiters will have to avoid if they can’t stand any WoW players.
What do you guys think - are employers right in avoiding people who play MMORPGs? Should you avoid revealing the fact that you even play WoW or outright lie if asked about it?
Related Posts: WoW “Offers a Peek into the Workplace of the Future”, WoW Anonymity: Who Are You Playing With?, Episode 4.3: Underbog, A Taste of Tanking, Karazhan,
By Kyndranigar on Tuesday, December 16th, 2008 at 7:06 pm
Never, NEVER lie in a job interview. That’s outright asking to be fired when the lie is found out (and it will).
As for this discrimination, I think there’s a genuine concern, especialy among industries that utilize computers on the work site, that a potential employee might have their head in a game instead of in the business. After all, they pay you to work for them, not play Blizz to keep you entertained. WoW is just the big, recognizable name. It’d be like saying you won’t hire someone who has a Playstation 3 or wears Nike, and so on. What they want is someone who doesn’t get distracted with MMO’s. s for making it a hiring criteria? Depend son the line of work, but the ACLU can probably take a look on your behalf if it’s truly unfair discrimination. If you walk in looking like a bum and admit to spending ten hours grinding mobs for a rare drop, then perhaps you should consider employment elsewhere or a change of behavior.
By Saemundr on Tuesday, December 16th, 2008 at 7:23 pm
while i agree with the above, I work at a software development company, and my current boss HATES Warcraft.
Partially because there are 2-3 other guys here and whenever he overhears us we’re talking about it or playing it - only during lunchtime, but he still feels that unhealthy.
He also mentions the lack of sleep due to gaming - but ever since i was 12 and got my first PC iv been a horrid sleeper, gaming is what i do. Warcraft is just my current vice, and it was reinforced - to me at least - when i quit WoW for 3wks while i moved house… first night i had my xbox and PC setup, and i played my Xbox till 12am - same time i raid till!
The IT industry is overrun by people with unreliable sleeping patterns and ‘unhealthy’ addictions to gaming.
Its what we do. You want the best, chances are theyr a gamer.
By PatrickD on Tuesday, December 16th, 2008 at 7:37 pm
I avoid Rock Band and Guitar Hero players, but would hire a WoW player…so that I wouldn’t be the only one on my floor of the office. I also wouldn’t hire a City of Heroes player since I had a boss who played that a few years back and he was a complete jerk.
By Alayea on Tuesday, December 16th, 2008 at 8:34 pm
Employers should never blacklist an entire demographic. That said, an employer’s concerns regarding a MMORPG player are understandable. But if that entity has very serious concerns, it should always be decided on a case-by-case basis instead of just stereotyping the job-seeker.
By David on Tuesday, December 16th, 2008 at 10:11 pm
as a 17 year old devoted to WoW and looking for a job, i wouldnt lie about playing games. however if the didnt hire me because of my choice in extra curricular activities, id question the legality of the situation. do they even have the right to not hire someone because of a game they play?
By jhez on Tuesday, December 16th, 2008 at 10:29 pm
I LOVE video games. i’m 16 and i work just as hard as any other guy out there. Employers should try to get those who play MMORPG’s because of the leadership skills that online games give people.
By Voldenmist on Tuesday, December 16th, 2008 at 11:21 pm
I admit, in the long hours in a boring night of stocking fruit or whatever else I tend to ponder on the one thing I I am able to do for fun quite a bit, but no to the point of distraction or enough to slo me down. I can think about opinions, spec desisions, my favorite web show based around my favorite MMO, etc. but when the blade hits the grindstone, I am easily able to push WoW out of my mind and do what needs to be done. I could undersand where this could become problem for same more than others, but to discremenate against a group of people because of there personal entertainment choice is like saying anyone who has ever watched Three’s Company should deserve to be pelted with skittles while standing on hot coals naked in the middle of times square, right? It’s just silly. If anything companies should focus more on hiring WoW players, because I’ve never heard of a company say they don’t care about there employees, and if they actually cared, would help the problem cases irl w/ there addiction. Just my to cents after just waking up…lol!
By Voldenmist on Tuesday, December 16th, 2008 at 11:23 pm
Wow….sry for the double post….but I apologize for my horrific spelling above, like I said, I just woke up, lol……I should start to reread more before my post.
By Ehrkashin on Tuesday, December 16th, 2008 at 11:58 pm
To be honest, my company looks at ALL your skills. Work related, but also what you do in your spare time. Everything counts, even WoW. We actually have our own forum on the intranet. And with 3300 people here, we have a large playerbase, I’ll tell ya!
I think… if my boss would find out you are a DK, u might get fired… but that only happens to DK’s, I spose!
By Shaun on Wednesday, December 17th, 2008 at 12:11 am
I understand where the employer is coming from, but I also think he’s a fucking idiot. Has this giant bag of douche ever heard of overgeneraliztion?
“Yes, you’re completely qualified in every way, except that we don’t take kindly to your type.”
By Enomeny on Wednesday, December 17th, 2008 at 12:14 am
Using a goods/bads criteria selection as an emplyer, playing WoW would fall into “bads”.
Even if players cant play WoW at work, they still loose time looking up items on sites like wowhead, checking out gems, looking at PL videos. It is a distraction from work, and not a good one.
And I seriously doubt any gains in skills a manager could have from playing WoW, as those studies say.
It is just lame to even start comparing WoW guild management with real life project management at work.
Btw, seems most people around here speak about “my boss” but I dont see anyone saying “me, being the boss…”. No bosses = no talking about benefits that a boss could have. There is none.
By ryan on Wednesday, December 17th, 2008 at 1:14 am
i work for a sheriffs office and what we do on the job and off the reflects us. so im sure we’d get fired if my supervisors found out i was skipping up on work and doing a poor proformance while duty but being that i do a good job they dont have a prob with our hobbies and what we di as long as it doesnt get us into trouble
By Nerrectuz on Wednesday, December 17th, 2008 at 1:54 am
Everyone acts on there own behalf. I can choose whether or not I want to play a game for ten hours or one hour, it’s my choice just like it’s anybodies choice. The idea that MMOG are being targeted, makes no sense other than a stereotype placed upon a game that forces the player to continue playing for various content.
Given the right motivation, the right job, I can see someone living a normal working life and playing WoW at night from 8 PM - 11 PM and being satisfied that they played enough. How so? Because I have done it. WoW is not that addictive, it’s just a strain on time which we all know exists but wish the hours were more and the sleep required was less.
Computer Industries better get use to the gaming aspect because without it the technology today would have a severe lack of purpose, considering Gaming is one of the strongest forms of technology updates/grades/changes. Without the gamer, we’d probably still have a single core processor that runs junk games that you have to wait for load times and enjoy that sweet coffee, burning away the night oil on freezes and reboots.
So my opinion on all this… It’s just life, face the facts, stick to what you know at an interview and do the work your required, but NEVER disclose information unless it’s absolutely necessary and if a fib is in order, don’t let it get out of control. Lies are over exaggerated schemes, fibs are forgetful bits of information that should not be told. Remember that, and you’re good.
By Holydos on Wednesday, December 17th, 2008 at 2:53 am
That would mean, the CEOs of companies would have to ‘lol’ Ignore 11 Million People who play WoW. lol
Soon it’ll probably be more, after this post so they would have to ignore 12 million people and next after that 13 Million. lo
By hammerjudge on Wednesday, December 17th, 2008 at 6:31 am
I can see their point but it should not be set to MMORPG’s. if the employer ask does one play wow, then they should ask how much TV time to u watch, do u play sports, how many movies do you watch. WoW is no different than did u see that “Reality Show” last night or Can u believe that happened on show “X”, did one go out partying or have a late dinner out. All of this could/would effect your performance. There are many influences that can effect a person’s performance on the job not just a MMORPG. If the company does not want one to spend time looking up information on any non related work item then they should block it in the IT department. All in all if a company does not hire a person for MMORPG play then I would say that that is discrimination, but one would not show up in less than business attire and knowledge of the job he/she has applied for either(sorry boy no sock less penny loafer and khaki shorts).
By Pete the Geek on Wednesday, December 17th, 2008 at 8:30 am
I don’t think employers should turn away anyone based on their hobbies when they’re not at work, regardless of what that hobby might be. If you can do the job, you should get the job.
On the other hand, I do think that employers should look at WoW players less like “lazy obsessed video game players” and more as “goal oriented, determined and committed team players”.
Have any of them ever seen what it takes to be a guild leader? The level of commitment and sacrifice? Dealing with problems and morale in the most efficient and fair way possible? I’d hire someone like that in a heartbeat.
By Carlos on Wednesday, December 17th, 2008 at 9:16 am
You can’t say ALL the WoW players are terrible workers. You can’t say ALL RB/GH players are terrible workers. It all depends on how you were raised.
By Sunalar on Wednesday, December 17th, 2008 at 9:33 am
I just started playing WOW 6 months ago and realize how addictive it can be sometimes, even if you are at work.
I don’t feel that it is right that a company should base its decision on what specific video game you play. I don’t even think they should have the right to ask (that is opening them up for a legal nightmare). If it comes up in general conversation then that one thing, but if they ask specificlly I would ask them what importance it holds on the job. If it holds no importance (such as working for a Blizzard competitor) then it is none of their business.
I have been a manager at both a major retail store and a national call center and have hired a lot of people and not once did I know if they played WOW or not. If we find out that WOW is affecting their performance at work then we deal with it at that time weather it is restricting internet sites or telling them to keep the conversations more business oriented while around customers.
The point is regardless of if you play WOW or not your mind will wander to whatever you like to do most outside of work, unless you are fortunate enough to be doing that as your job anyway.
By Mike on Wednesday, December 17th, 2008 at 10:22 am
It sounds to me like they should be avoiding the people who make these decisions rather than avoiding WoW players.
Chances are your geekiest and nerdiest people are WoW players, and if you need those people for a nerdy job then you’re likely going to get a WoW player.
Aside from that, every “serious” player (that is, hardcore player) actually knows all about time management. Just because you see someone on from 8PM to 2AM doesn’t mean they have no life, perhaps their work hours or their school hours are short that day.
You can kind of guess about the kinds of lives people have when you form raid guilds, and surprisingly enough a lot of people have very good time management.
The most preferred raid times have always been early in the week, Sunday-Thursday. Evenings as well. The reason being is that many people are out of school, off of work, and need some time to enjoy to themselves.
The raid times tend to start around 7PM or 8PM for most people, reflective of the fact that many have already gotten dinner out of the way between 5 and 7PM.
They like to keep Friday and Saturday nights open for their friends or going out.
This carries from anyone around 18 to people up into their 40’s and 50’s.
By boboski on Wednesday, December 17th, 2008 at 11:38 am
i might be a bit to young to understand the job world(14 years). but i think its bullshit to avoid wow players speccificly, sience many… lets say raid leader i have played with i think have atleast some cuallity as some sort of high ups possition. Excuse my poor english im swedish.
By Kleenur on Wednesday, December 17th, 2008 at 12:16 pm
Personally, I feel that what I do on my own time is none of my employers or potential employers business unless I chose to share it with them. I have certainly mentioned that I am a full time student, a big brother, and an avid reader on top of my full time job when I am talking with employers because these things are viewed positively but, what video games I play is none of thier business.
If I was asked in an interview what video games I play I would ask the interviewer about the relevance of that question. If they made a valid case I woudl tell them that I spend five hours per week playing video games of various types. I woudl also mention that the average American spends five hours PER DAY watching television and as such my entertainment concerns would not conflict with my job duties.
By gotjackorjim on Wednesday, December 17th, 2008 at 12:35 pm
There are a TON of things out there that affect performance and prevent 100% focus at work, well above and beyond a video game. It’s arguable that anything in excess is not good though.
I have a great job that allows me to work out of my home office. There are many times that I’ve flexed hours so that I could play WoW during off-peak times. (Hmm, ironic though how work kicked into warp speed the day before the xpac was released but that’s another story.)
Having been a boss and aside from the obvious “not violating company policy etc”, as long as it’s not affecting professionalism in the office/with clients and it’s not affecting productivity, then who cares what video game someone plays or if they play at all?
Not to mention, has that recruiter NOT seen the recent survey on just how many adults (over 50%) play video games of some sort? Here’s one of many links you could find to the article: http://www.usatoday.com/tech/gaming/2008-12-07-video-games_N.htm While one survey isn’t the end all-be all by any means, it’s certainly interesting.
It’s just like tattoos becoming mainstream, causing adjustments of expectations or acceptability standards by many companies. Any company ruling out gamers (MMORPGs or otherwise) as employees could find themselves scratching the bottom of the barrel very fast!
By Albrechtae on Wednesday, December 17th, 2008 at 12:58 pm
I openly admit that WoW effects my sleep schedule.
However, for years there has been something that has effected my sleep schedule. I’m a night owl. It doesn’t matter if I get 2 hours of sleep, then work all day, then go home exhausted… I stay up at night. It’s not WoW specifically. I’ve stayed up surfing the net, watching TV, playing other video games, reading, or just staring at the ceiling. I’m used to it and I don’t let it effect my work.
It’s silly to think that the only thing keeping people awake at night is World of Warcraft.
By Kyndranigar on Wednesday, December 17th, 2008 at 2:08 pm
Good posts among those here. One thing to remember for an interview is to avoid being confrontational. Also, use the question as a springboard for other things, for example:
“While I spend (insert hours) enjoying the relaxation and involvement of video games, as many other people enjoy them or other past times, I also make time for (activity A), (Activity B) and (activity C). Additionally, a friend of mine is (insert important position) who I some times spend my free time with engaging in some of these activities.”
Though the Additionally part only works if you do know someone. Again, never lie.
By Aether-of-Gnomeregan on Wednesday, December 17th, 2008 at 2:19 pm
Considering I’m spending my work hours looking at Project Lore and not being productive, I’d say this is probably a good tip.
If I didn’t have a vested interest, I’d fire me.
By penrose on Wednesday, December 17th, 2008 at 3:05 pm
One has to see how silly this is. Playing a game does not impact anything. Being addicted to a game does.
BUT, and here is the point, being addicted to anything will have some performance on any job. We have all heard stories of WOW players who have lost their jobs, their families (not married anymore) and their homes; and are still trying to find a way to play this game. But, that is an addiction and should be treated just like any other addiction.
They should hire based on skill, and manage if someone has an addiction that effects job performance.
By Irishsnout on Wednesday, December 17th, 2008 at 3:36 pm
I cant see how someone would not hire you because of what yo do outside of work unless it was illegal or a conflct of intrest. I’m the only one at my job that plays wow while everyone else is into the rock console games. Freecell is the real distraction at work. I grew up with the atari 2600, nintendo, etc along with many others in my age bracket. Video games are a staple with most games catering to a post teen market. Not hiring someone because they play a game in thier free time is just stupid.
By Unclechuchu on Wednesday, December 17th, 2008 at 3:45 pm
I think theres still a market for company retreats involving playing WoW as a team building exercise.
By Almach on Wednesday, December 17th, 2008 at 5:29 pm
How would employers screen potential employees without it being considered a discriminatory act? I can see why certain companies or agencies force their candidates to undergo drug testing or even background checks (like my current employer), especially when safety or security is a concern. However, to ask people if they play WoW is, to me, far fetched. It’s almost as bad as being asked what your religious beliefs or political leanings are. It’s simply a matter that should not be discussed during an interview, and if it is, the candidate should at least express his or her concerns on the nature of the question and maybe even go so far to end the interview.
By Skippy on Wednesday, December 17th, 2008 at 5:56 pm
I’m an alcoholic, i’ve always disclosed this in job intervieuws. And as long as i get on a job sober, don’t drink during the job and don’t outperform no one ever seems bothered, I’ve lost two job intervieuws because someone wasn’t a *risk* factor like i was. Grounds for a law suit but i didn’t persui it since tbh if someone is single, had the same experience and doesn’t have my problem then tbh i’d hire them aswell instead of myself if i was the manager. But on the other hand, my * addiction * has never ever served as a reason to terminate my job, in fact the 1 time i was ever fired was when a company wide re organisation took place and it had nothing to do with my * problem * In my opinion just labeling someone that has an interist in something that might pose a problem in job interviews is a possible legal pitt fall as it’s simply not allowed at all. And as long as job performance doesn’t suffer, ( eg no hangovers or being cranky for not sleeping because of wow ) whatever someone is doing in their free time is not an issue. ( offcource harming your employer intentionatley during this time is excluded from previous statement )
// Skippy
By Skippy on Wednesday, December 17th, 2008 at 5:59 pm
Outperform in previous post should be misperform, or whatever, english is not my native tongue…
By gnarforama on Wednesday, December 17th, 2008 at 6:00 pm
“He said there is a belief that WoW players cannot give 100% because their focus is elsewhere,” what a lame excuse. Soooooo, the only thing anybody could possibly daydream about is WOW?
I guess he’s got something there. I’ve never worked with anybody who spends as much time on their job as they do chatting about sports; or sneaking a peak at their ebay auctions or browsing something online, or getting text messages or phone calls from the kids at home, or are more interested in making friends or ‘hooking-up” with the newest hottie temp the company just hired.
Yup, never seen any of that happen.
Just because you participate in some sort of behavior, doesn’t mean you are so consumed by it that it hinders your job performance.
By Urlan on Wednesday, December 17th, 2008 at 7:53 pm
This practice of not hiring people with certain hobbies is nothing new to the employment world. WoW is just the next in a long line of activities that certain “employment specialists” have deemed to be a negative influence on potential employees.
For the longest time there has been a theory that suggested that golf was basically creating the problem described in Juggy’s post, people couldn’t stay focused on their work because they were to concerned with golf.
What most people fail to realize is that even though some of the richest Americans are people who work constantly and never have any down time, most people need to escape work. If WoW is your escape than you are no different than a person who goes to bars, or golfs, or texts people until their fingers bleed.
Most employers realize this, but their are a select few who’s short sighted approach to human resources management causes them to invent ridiculous mandates like “Don’t hire WoW players.” Give it time, pretty soon they’ll be blaming something else for hurting their bottom line.
By Ferrix on Wednesday, December 17th, 2008 at 9:14 pm
I wouldn’t go out of my way to tell somebody i play WoW, but it’s not all a bad thing. Look at raid leader running into a new raid blind. When something goes bad you can have your “bad” leader, or your “good” leader. the bad leader will probobly start panicing, and blaming people for the wipe. The good one will take charge and start accesing the situation (sorry for anything mispelled) then come up with a solution right on the spot. Throw that into a RL job such as with computers in an office, and the servers crash. People have no clue what to do, but you step in and come up with an idea such as backing up work on a hardrive finishing what you have and hand delivering it to the boss. Im not saying WoW will make you a CEO of a company. But somethings sure will help. Am i right or am i right.
By Verros on Wednesday, December 17th, 2008 at 10:19 pm
I am Store Director at a retail store, and I have to say that this is just flat out stupid. Four of the seven managers I’ve hired play WoW and do there jobs very efficiently, and have good people management skills. They go me into playing WoW, and to all those who say that managing a guild of any decent size (50+ different members) doesn’t improve leadership skills you are wrong. Managing a guild is harder than a big department store. You have to have the respect of people you will most likely never meet to keep them together, in line, and make them go along with your decisions, because if not then you’ll be out one guildie. Where as in real life if they don’t listen to what you say or respect you or agree with your decisions then it’s their problem cause they’re the ones out of a job. I encourage the hiring of RESPONSIBLE WoW players. Their are ways to make sure people don’t play, or look stuff about it up while on the clock. I can’t count how many times I’ve seen an employee on break, or lunch that’s looking up stuff or talking about WoW, but I monitor every computer that’s on our network and only once in four years have I found someone on the clock looking up something about WoW, and it turned out to be a managers son on the computer while his dad was getting ready to go home. All-in-all WoW players make the best, and most enjoyable employees, and guild leaders make damn good management staff.
By regailia on Thursday, December 18th, 2008 at 1:18 am
People are people. I’ve known WoW players that I wouldn’t hire to dig a hole in my backyard and others that should be running NASA. To slap a lable in whole on one group is an embarassing position for a company to take in its hiring practices. As far as broadening the scope a little and saying the MMORPG community is a more fair group to label is still generalizing a wide range of people and abilities under one banner.
I find myself more concerned in interviewing potential employees with drug and alcohol problems, criminal records, etc . . . than those with addictions to video games. While I may get people who measure their level of awake in gallons of coffee . . I find them to be no less effective than those who spend their nights watching TV until 2am or out clubbing until its time to shower for work.
Besides, if the most compelling criteria for the job is “Do you play WoW?” . . . as the job seeker I would be more concerned about the quality of the company.
By Kelthas on Thursday, December 18th, 2008 at 8:58 am
i think that employers that avoid any kind of potential employees no matter the reason have something very wrong with their heads. Sure everyone likes the new hot secretary, or that second floor girl who always smiles to you in the elevator or that girl in accounting that won’t notice that you are staring at her boobs 98% of the time but just because someone plays a game or is just not so easy on the eye it doesn’t mean that they aren’t capable of doing the job
By Dulica on Thursday, December 18th, 2008 at 9:57 am
I’ve never been asked if I play video games.. proabably becauce I’m a girl, but even still, my playing WoW has nothing to do with my ability to do my job. If it did, then it would be clear that playing WoW would have to be scaled back. I love it, and it’s so much fun, but if you’re too into an online video game to continue doing your job irl, you’ve got a problem. It all depends on the person.
By Quelheure on Thursday, December 18th, 2008 at 2:28 pm
“Look, the people you are after are the people you depend on. We cook your meals, we haul your trash, we connect your calls, we drive your ambulances. We guard you while you sleep. Do not… **** with us.”
By gnarforama on Thursday, December 18th, 2008 at 2:51 pm
Well said Quelheure or shoud I say, Jack’s Carpal Tunnel from Raiding Kara all night.
By Ven on Sunday, December 21st, 2008 at 6:49 am
To me this is just a form of discrimination. It has been well said in the comments here that there is no way to clump together the entirety of WoW players. I work a job where my manager thinks I’m the most productive employee there. And I play wow. The other people are just plain lazy, annoys me, and they don’t play wow. Then again it could be vice versa, you could have a complete retard who plays wow working at a place and be the worst worker there. We’ve all met the good and the bad in WoW. It’s just a matter of distinguishing which is which.
By WoW Fan on Wednesday, January 14th, 2009 at 1:45 pm
Sad thing if this is how recruiters do their thing. If the applicant was a certified addict, he/she wouldn’t bother to find a job in the real world to earn real money rather wow gold.
By Lisse on Thursday, February 12th, 2009 at 12:55 pm
When I was looking for a job about a year ago, I put in an application to a big name company. about a week later I had a phone interview, asked all the normal questions, then started asking what I do in my spare time. I told them that I like to play MMO’s. They then asked which ones, I told them WoW. Then the interview ended with them saying i would be in the next group hired, blah, blah blah. 4 months later they call back wanting to hire me, I took the job. Now even when i’m on my break or lunch and try talking about anything pertaining to WoW the managers look at us and frown. I have even had to have a talk with my sup because they think that WoW will eventually distract me from my job and they want me to stop playing before that happens.
By Joe Briggs on Thursday, February 26th, 2009 at 7:44 pm
How about everyone start writing the truth about job recruiters. They are liars, scum, cheats and need to start feeling fear.
The way of doing business through job recruiters needs to end.