Project Lore: Five dudes. Four cameras. One World of Warcraft.

Posted by Bastosa on Friday, January 9th, 2009 - 105 Comments

Tags: gear, groups, instance, rolling, shards, tradeskills

Comments

By Xcomer on Friday, January 9th, 2009 at 4:26 pm

Yo that is totally true. I mine and only roll against other miners for the ore. But none of the DE people i ran with ever said anything so i did not think about it that way.

By Max on Friday, January 9th, 2009 at 4:31 pm

I Agree 100%. I am an up and coming enchater, and I really NEED the shards let alone want them. I am a skinner too, so, I know what it’s like. Anway, yeah, enchanters should get the sharsds.

By penndragonii on Friday, January 9th, 2009 at 4:33 pm

I know how you feel i had an enchanter for a long time and got tired of just that problem and re-rolled differant proffs. i didnt mind so much at first but like alot of unlucky enchanters out there, I always roll low. i figure at least give the first shard to the enchanter and give a chance to roll to everyone after that.

By Bearly on Friday, January 9th, 2009 at 4:34 pm

The rolling of the shard is to replace the random roll for the piece of gear.
If there were no enchanter, everyone would just roll to vendor the piece of unused gear.
If there is an enchanter, we give it to the enchater to DE, then roll on the shard.
If that makes sense. =\

By Alayea on Friday, January 9th, 2009 at 4:35 pm

You do make a valid argument. I have to somewhat disagree with you on the matter, though. The reason why is because comparing sharding to skinning/mining is a bit like the apples vs. oranges. You can find mining nodes and skins (like the Arctic Fur) just about anywhere in WoW.

But blues and epics are inherently hard to get. You may have the world drops, but are you going to try to get those? Doubtlessly, no. The best place to farm for blues and epics are instances and raids, which usually requires other players to spend their time helping you out. Also, I do not believe that enchanting — while the primary one — is the only profession that needs shards to skill up.

So here’s my outlook on this issue you bring up: Yes, the person doing the disenchanting ought to keep at least one of the shards. The rest can be rolled on.

(And by the way, my pugs do roll on mining nodes if we come across one in the instance.)

By Athelias on Friday, January 9th, 2009 at 4:37 pm

thats completely true. its not just with mats, man i’ve seen clothies need on mail, plate and leather just because they have an alt that can wear. i mean everyone has alts but u don’t take from group loot for them.

By Mini-me on Friday, January 9th, 2009 at 4:37 pm

Well,I for one disagree, the items you disenchant give quite a load of money if sold to vendors. What you can always do is try to reason with’em, say if they pass you’ll give them the enchant of the reagents from it,you get your level up and the other guy gets an enchant. and really,how often are there nodes in instances? and does this mean you should give the cloth to the tailor?

By Bearly on Friday, January 9th, 2009 at 4:37 pm

Just to clear up a bit: If everyone greeds on the item and the enchanter wins, then of course, he/she should keep the shard.
But, most people like to give the crappy blue to the enchanter to DE so have a chance to get a shard (which benefits them more than 9g by selling it to a vendor)

By Feupeu on Friday, January 9th, 2009 at 4:44 pm

I do totaly agree! I have allways felt wierd when i rolled of the gems, but cool - i rolled, and won sometimes. But I agree, enchanters should have their shard for themselves, as long as the gear is useless.

But i also think you should talk to your party before entering the instance, what the loot-rules is. Rolling on shards/lether/ores, or whatever you wanna do.

If i were an enchanter, i would be pissed if i had to give away my shards for free, because i know how expensive it is to lvl-up.

By Zaraken on Friday, January 9th, 2009 at 5:08 pm

In ways I like to agree with you, but there is quite a difference between skins/mines to shards. The issue is skins and nodes be pass by if neither profession is in group. No benefit to anyone. Now when comes to shards there is an option to make it into shards. That loot that be DE could still be vendor for gold which is what usually happens if no needs around. The loot of the boss will be use in some form and still be there, DE or not. That is why you still roll, you just changing the thing that be roll/vendor for gold to something that be sold for gold. Just be happy with skill lv up.

Now if running with guildies you can probably convince the need for the shards. Pugs aka people who probably don’t know you for most cases would like the chance for more money and would get that chance if your there or not. Personally I could care less if the chanter keeps them or not, rather make it through an instance or raid with little issues.

By SaintGermain on Friday, January 9th, 2009 at 5:27 pm

I agree with most of your reasoning here Bastosa.

My idea is just one step modified: I think enchanters should get first pick of DE’ed mats, possibly two, and then everyone rolls on the rest.

I have an alt that is a healer / tailor / enchanter and not only do I get few props for healing, I get fewer props for DEing.

A green drop or a BOP blue or purple that has no use except for the, let’s say, 5 gold vendor is one thing, but that same item could become a DE mat that could be worth 10 - 15g value if there is someone can create it. Therefore, an enchanter/disenchanter adds value to the item, and for that alone, the person should be allowed to request and receive a fee commiserate with the service provided.

Now sure one runs the ‘risk’ of DEing an item into a ‘worthless’ mat, but here are two important insights into that:
• First, the item to be DEed is usually considered ‘worthless’ since it’s being DEed and as such not in high demand.
• Second, the vendor amount for most ‘worthless-and-should-be-DEed’ items is usually equivalent to the ‘worthless’ DE mat gained from it by DEing it.

There may be those that disagree with this thinking but as someone who provides a service that adds value I would expect to be compensated for the service I prove, and not just that I get to roll for mats I created. If that’s gonna be the case, I might just start needing on everything with the completely legitimate rational that I need it to level my enchanting.

But probably the best thought is discuss loot and DE mats BEFORE beginning an instance or raid. It will save you from the frustration later.

Saint

By FanofJeff on Friday, January 9th, 2009 at 5:57 pm

If I’m not allowed to roll on the shard then I’m not going to pass on that blue boss drop so you can disenchant it. I will select greed and vendor it if I win. pretty sure the rest of the group would too.

However, it would be a different story if the enchanter was a guildie/friend of mine and they asked if they could have the blue drop that no-one needs. I would pass for them no problem.

By WookieeB on Friday, January 9th, 2009 at 6:24 pm

As an enchanter myself, your predicament seems odd to me. Don’t your groups all decide before hand, or at least by the first boss drop, whether to DE unused drops?

If the group decides to shard items, they should be passing on the roll (or at least letting the enchanter roll NEED if nobody else does). Otherwise with no enchanter they’d all be rolling Greed to have their chance to vendor it. I don’t agree that just because you are an enchanter, you by default get to shard and keep all unused items.

If you don’t like sharding for the group, don’t do it. Just roll Greed like everyone else and shard your own wins later.

By Sidias on Friday, January 9th, 2009 at 6:25 pm

I was just thinking about this the other day. It certainly isn’t fair in the traditional sense. On the other hand I like being able to provide that utility in groups.

It would be nice if the expectation was changed so that the enchanter comes away with at least one shard. We should be compensated for increasing the value of these items, and losing valuable mats to the rng just doesn’t seem right. Mats that we can’t just go out and farm whenever we want.

By Teliko on Friday, January 9th, 2009 at 6:29 pm

I agree with what you said, but 9 times out of 10 the group doesn’t agree with that. So what I do is when the DE’er says roll, If I win the roll, I tell them to keep my shard. Its only fair, They took the time to level enchanting, I didn’t and I’d be damned if I am sharing my ore… XD

~Teliko

By Bith on Friday, January 9th, 2009 at 6:29 pm

I give shards I win to the enchanters in my guild. If you don’t get shards from your guildies, then don’t be giving them free enchants. I also give greens. I don’t pass on greens; I take them with the intent of giving them to our enchanter(s) along with the shards.

If you get shards given to you by your guildies, I don’t think you should complain about having to roll for your shard.

By Shaun on Friday, January 9th, 2009 at 7:04 pm

i agree with you
but you could always disenchant them after the group disbands

By Kamuki on Friday, January 9th, 2009 at 7:05 pm

i HATE it when i get a shard and everybodys like ” ok cool lets roll” im like “wait wait wait this is mine. i can use it” im like WTF im thinking if u want it lvl your enchanting and get one yourself!

By Lynex on Friday, January 9th, 2009 at 7:05 pm

you definitely opened my eyes to this issue and now I agree with you. If there are other Enchanters in your group then they should roll but not the other ppl

By Dayotha on Friday, January 9th, 2009 at 8:03 pm

See this what you should do, when they all ask if there is a DE’er just say no and you will still roll to see who will get the item for vendoring. Make sure you don’t DE it when they are in the group or around you ^.^

By Dagimpie on Friday, January 9th, 2009 at 8:26 pm

ok im so sick of DEs… if you get some crap off the stupid mobs, be my geuss and keep it… as a Tankadin, that also enchants… i look at it like this i can clear trash by my self so i keep all that… but most bosses that i would be in a group for i dont mind rolling for the shards… i mean off the stuff i would be DEing you wouldn’t get much really selling to vendors… i would say if you kept EVERY BOE item in 1 run sold them all to the vendor you would make maybe 10-15g… you will probly average 1-2 shards every run(atleast i do) which will sell for well more… then that.. so you should average a profit…. so once again minning and skinners dont share what they get since most of them could get it on their own…. if you get the shard by your self be my guest and keep it

By Dagimpie on Friday, January 9th, 2009 at 8:33 pm

one last comment on this is, if you want all the shards to yourself, just say if no one needs it we all roll greed… and if you win you get to DE it… it is called GREED for a reason

By Andarcin on Friday, January 9th, 2009 at 8:36 pm

I aggree, I am abit biast because I am a chanter myself, but chanting is one of the hardest proffessions to level and at the same time, hardest to farm. Every other proffession can easily farm their mats any day and make hundreds of gold an hour. but all chanters have is the luck of finding greens while farming mods, or instances. So yes enchanters are making worthless loot more worthful, but that is the only way they can make gold out of that proffession besides advertising in trade. So, I think chanters should get first pick of the mats and maybe roll on ones that arn’t needed by the chanter, like Dream Shards when the chanted has all the chants. But if they need the money, or need the mats to lvl their chanting, they should have the right to keep those mats they make.

Aswell, this I see alot is when there is 2 enchanters in the group, they will be rolling greed each to get the worthless item to DE, but without an overall decision to have chanters keep mats or roll on them, they one usually keeps the ones they get and the other is forced by grp to give them out, and the one that is forced is usually forced by the other chanter.

In the end, it is a group decision of what to do. But really, I think chanters should keep their mats they make like skinners do, miners do, and herbers do.

By Furbalto on Friday, January 9th, 2009 at 8:38 pm

Yea, I’m an herbalist and i usually just roll against the other herbers, but whenever i get a shard, i never do anything with it, im not a big AH person, but it ends up collecting dust in my bank, i still have 10 void crystals from bc and an abyss crystal doing nothing in my bank, its nice to get a few hundred gold every once and a while for your shards, but still, if you give it to the enchanter, you might get an enchant back in return

By Dyra on Friday, January 9th, 2009 at 9:00 pm

This may make me sound like a bad person, but if no-one brings up the fact I had been given blues to DE at the end of my PUGs (which they almost never do) I keep the shards for myself. Call me a ninja but hey it’s one of the few ways I can actually make some gold.

By Ozzel's Cousin Fred on Friday, January 9th, 2009 at 10:39 pm

People expect something for nothing

I spend thousands of gold buying JC recipes, and nobody wants to help me cover my costs with tips.. so I’m not sure on this issue. I’ve had enchanters come to me expecting free cuts, and free services, but expecting tips from me in return. I’ve had people sell me recipes for 800 g and turn around expecting free cuts afterwards. or AH recipes to the highest bidder instead of offering to inguild.

Ore and skins are generally only useful to the person obtaining the materials, though ore is more useful since they implemented JC, most people would gain no benefit from Most skins unless they were also a LW

I understand both sides of the issue and to be honest am fine with passing to my enchanter guildies usually, but I do think that just because an enchanter adds value doesnt necessarily mean they should have sole dominion over the drops.

I’d rather see gear used than sharded anyday, anyway.

Most Certainly Not willing to let enchanters keep mats in the case of a raid. Since thats something an entire raid earns, it should be held for the entire raidgroups use, not the sole enchanter.

By Ozzel's Cousin Fred on Friday, January 9th, 2009 at 10:43 pm

I think the fairest way is to divvy up, and let the enchanter get Some compensation for their efforts while everyone else gets a shot at a share though.

By Kreak on Friday, January 9th, 2009 at 10:46 pm

I couldn’t read all the comments but my idea is this: Enchanters get to DE items other people don’t need, and everyone can roll on the mats… BUT you add 20 to whatever the enchanter rolls since they DEed it. Make a macro and tell your group befor entering an instance. If they don’t agree, then reason with them. Maybe thats helpful?

By xore on Saturday, January 10th, 2009 at 12:04 am

If we have an Enchanter in the group when doing dungeons/raids, if a green (or better) loot drops of mobs - all roll greed (unless you need). If the enchanter wins and de’s it, it’s theirs.

However, when we down boss(es) - whoever doesn’t need the drop(s) will be de’d by the enchanter and then we all roll for those shard(s) at the end of the run (or is placed in the guild bank).

By Josh Howard on Saturday, January 10th, 2009 at 12:13 am

My thoughts are that the extra loot should be rolled on as a greed roll. if an enchanter gets it they can get a hard, if someone else gets it they can vendor them for cash.

Just because no one can use the item itself doesnt mean it should automatically go to the enchanter. I can ALWAYS use cash

By Sawari on Saturday, January 10th, 2009 at 12:18 am

Meh, as a raiding guild the DE’s shard is everyone’s shard. As a LW I use my mats all the time for the benefit of the guild. I have no problem donating armor kits when people get upgrades or new people start to get higher end epics. I can understand a LITTLE in PUGs but I prefer not to PUG, avoiding such problems altogether.

By Cether on Saturday, January 10th, 2009 at 2:25 am

DE’ers getting shards - I wish
If you suggest this people will just greed the bop’s.
Remember UBRS and skinning the beast?
The LW would have been crucified if he took the skin.

By simio on Saturday, January 10th, 2009 at 3:16 am

i dont agree with you yeah its true that u need them for enchanting but evryone needs em for enchants i mean everybody lets his gear getting enchanted and so u will need mats for that.

By Maivara on Saturday, January 10th, 2009 at 3:35 am

I’ve always found that if you wait till the end to roll, it’s better because then everyone is sick of the instance and hearths… they leave you with said shards, and never ask to roll on them. So. Instead of reminding people I ask them to remind me, and they never do it. So I just keep the shards o.o It’s a bit unfair to do it in such a way but I feel they same way about taking my shards!

By Valentinex on Saturday, January 10th, 2009 at 4:15 am

I think it’s based more on a situational basis. I think with guildies and friends the chance of you DE’ing some blues/epics and then convincing them that you should keep it to level your enchanting is far higher than doing the same with a pug group.

Lets face it; everyone tends to be greedy, and when it comes to shards, no one in the pugs likes watching the shard they helped to obtain get taken away by the enchanter because they need to the skillups/buy more recipes. I certainly don’t. It annoys me even more when the person that can disenchant passes on the useless loot anyway.

Look at it this way: lets say you had different professsions, and you needed the shards for an enchant you’ve been saving for and you know yourself that gaining the shards by pugging would be cheaper than having to go to the AH to buy them. You happen to come across a pug with an enchanter that decides to take all the shards in exchange for his services. The likelihood of the rest of the pug agreeing with him is rather small.

In any case, mining nodes, leather, and herbs are far more easier to farm than farming shards in an instance purely because you can practically find them anywhere.

If you do remember something, remember this; everyone has a use for that shard, so i reckon everyone should roll on it. I have an enchant/tailoring warlock, and I have no problems with other people rolling on the shards in an instance.

By Simon on Saturday, January 10th, 2009 at 4:34 am

There is some truth in this, BUT mostly enchanters say : your mats, small fee. so they don’t need the mats themselves, only to enchant their own gear.

By dentei on Saturday, January 10th, 2009 at 4:58 am

wouldn’t it be nice if we all just greeded or even passed on gear we don’t need and ALWAYS pass on profession related items we dont need?

By Zeke on Saturday, January 10th, 2009 at 6:08 am

That is so true…i never thought of it that way but we are getting screwed…fro i am a enchanter too…

By Aguzar (Darkspear EU) on Saturday, January 10th, 2009 at 6:19 am

Thing you seem to have forgotten is all party memebers worked together to kill that boss for that blue/purple item. so its only fair they get a chance.

i know you might say the group worked together to kill x for artic fur, or cleared x amount of trash to get to that mining node, but if no one had mining/skinning, no one loses out. whereas if no one has enchanting and no one needs the item, its effectively wasted.

not biased, am enchanter myself

By Drygo on Saturday, January 10th, 2009 at 6:31 am

in my opinion, the enchanters should keep the shards, it was their choice to be able to make them right? if another person in the group wants the shard for himself he can reroll to enchanting and raise the levels to disenchant that high level gear

i also understand that higher level gear creates expensive shards for enchanters, but its a profession which is meant to earn money for people or create better gear, so after a certain point we can think of enchanting as almost a gathering prof. in that sense that the shards sell well on AH

and if you think about it, shards wouldnt sell that well if the enchanters always got them anyways since they would be using them to level enchanting, the only reason you even see shards on AH is from things like this, people selling them back to the enchanters that DE them in the first place

By gnarforama on Saturday, January 10th, 2009 at 8:04 am

I have to disagree. If non-enchanters in a group are passing up the possibility of vendoring or AH’ng a piece of gear to let it get DE’d, I say the shards are up for grabs just like the gear would have been.

By Dulica on Saturday, January 10th, 2009 at 8:45 am

When I play with my guild, we all know who needs/wears/uses what, and we make sure they get those things. When someone got some plate armor that I, as a warrior was the only one who could use it, all hell broke loose. It was an accident, and the person felt bad, but no biggie. I’ve made a macro that outlines loot rules, and it hasn’t happened again.

By Azurko on Saturday, January 10th, 2009 at 8:47 am

I’m the main enchanter for my guild (whom I only run instances/raids with) and this is how we work it:

Green random drops gets Greed rolls by everyone. If the winner chooses to, I’ll take the item and DE it for them.

Blue randoms get the same treatment, but only nobody needs it. Everyone must agree before the person can take it.

Blue/purple boss drops, unless needed & agreed, goes to me and I DE it. We then roll on that shard.

Anyone new coming in gets these rules up front and if they don’t like it, door is that way.

By Thelmaris on Saturday, January 10th, 2009 at 10:27 am

What most people are tending to forget that while Miners Herbalists and Skinners all have reliable ways to get their mats simply flying around Northrend or wherever there level may allow, instances are the only reliable means an Enchanter to get those particular kinds of shards without shelling out ridiculously high amounts of gold to get all they need from the AH.

I look at this from the perspective of a Scribe and Engineer, so I know that I need pretty much everything but the Shards (excepting the occasional rarely used recipe.)

The logic many seem to be using is that “Well when a node is found or an animal skinned only the BS or LW can use the material in the group so it’s theirs, but others have need for the shards (Most of the time to sell it)

By that logic I have a right to roll on the bars they make from the ore, the leather they produce from the beasts or herbs they gather if any such nodes exist. Just because I can justify it as such, does that mean I should go ahead and assert my right to roll on the materials that THEY worked to produce from something I otherwise would have been unable to use? Of course not.

I say leave the shards to the enchanter since he/she will be the only one that will have any repeated use for it and if they’re feeling generous let the shards be rolled for.

By Mctucker on Saturday, January 10th, 2009 at 10:33 am

I completely disagree with you here bast. Comparing Enchanting to Mining and Skinning? Really? When did enchanting become a gathering profession? I understand that you need shards to buy recipes to level up, and then you need abyss crystals to get the best enchants, but you are a 450 enchanter, and you have ALL of the wrath enchants. I have no problem giving shards to guildies lvling their enchanting, but passing to you, simply so you can sell enchants and make gold off them? I love you bro, but no. If your argument is that you don’t make any money off your current professions, drop engineering and pick up mining or something. With the change in enchant costs in the upcoming patch, shards are going to become much more useful, so I’ll be keeping mine… well hopefully. Doesn’t help that my girlfriend is an enchanter. But luckily we’re both tanks, so you won’t be ninja’ing my shards in 5 mans at least.

By BurceMage on Saturday, January 10th, 2009 at 10:57 am

Hello,
Im a Enchanter myself. Well the way i see it I can DE the stuff and you cant. I spent a tone of money too be able too DE my stuff i receive. When you can skin and Nod mines and just make money like that. I chose not too say anything and just roll on stuff when im in a pug. I greed it like all the other and if i win i get my Shard if not well he can sell it. But for my Guildy they all give me the shards, basicly we put em in the guild bank that way if a guildy need a enchant i can do it for them. So why would i not want too DE and then roll with a pug. My saying is he didn’t want too level up as a enchanter so why should he make money off a proffesion i spent time and money on so i can do this. So i chose not too say anything and just roll again Pug when time come.

That my opinion and dont realy care what you think

By Bebble on Saturday, January 10th, 2009 at 11:34 am

I hate when a group decides to roll on shards, cuz I dont want shards I want the loot so I can sell it lol

By davey on Saturday, January 10th, 2009 at 11:42 am

i totaly disagree, y should the enchabter get the items no 1 uses and make money when we could all rool on greed and make our own money, how am i supposed 2 mae money running instance when the enchanters get all the items i could sell of 2 ppl who would USE them

By John on Saturday, January 10th, 2009 at 2:31 pm

You’re being greedy, so thanks for asking! The gathering profession argument is not relevant, because gatherers can gather anywhere in the world - the few places in instances we gather are a tiny bonus and a bit of fun. Oh, and the value of 3 goldclover is a lot lower than the value of a crystal

The main place to get crystals and shards is in instances. So sorry, but it does take 5 people to get you that far, and those 4 other people also need enchanting mats. That’s why they cost so much on the AH.

I weep for the high cost of your enchanting receipes, I really do :P. Poor poor you, how Blizzard is making you suffer.

Seriously though, I think its much improved since BC; now you can get all enchants for nothing more than mere gold. No more endless farming for random drops. I think its a much nicer system.

Put it this way, I had a long argument with a (selfish) guidie of mine abou this. Btw, he is filthy rich, so his whining about the cost of enchanting is just whining. Its not stopping him spending 1000s on vanity items, because when you’re that rich, there’s nothing else to buy.

Anyway, he said he should keep them in a semi pug run for these kinds of reasons, and we let him. I was massively pissed. Then, when we did a pure guild run with officers & GM, strangely, he didnt say a word about this policy - he just let us all /roll on the crystals and shards. I couldnt believe it after all his self-righteous arguments to us “lesser” guidies.

Bottom line now: I dont trust him, I wont do 5 mans with him coz he”ll ninja the shards (or let us roll with bad grace and try to make us feel greedy) , and in 10 mans, I’ll give the loot to another DEer… again, because I hate his attitude. Its a way a can publicly demonstrate to him to go f-himself. Arguments were irrelevant - he was just being selfish and I couldnt argue him out of it. And he knows it too ! - otherwise he would have tried to rip off our GM & officers when we did that pure guild run. He’s actually so selfish, he thought it fairer to vendor an epic, then DE it and not keep the crystal himself. After all, if HE wasnt there, there’d be no crystal, right?

So go ahead and do what you like! But be preparted for people to shun you, or worse, if you do. You may think you’re entititled, but other players will not. I asked several other enchanters about their views, in case I was being very unreasonable: same response from them: free /roll.

By Pete the Geek on Saturday, January 10th, 2009 at 2:52 pm

This is why you should only do runs with guildees or people you trust. The way my friends and I do it is that we have a “greater needs” system. Greed if you want to vendor it, Need if it’s an upgrade, or else pass for the chance to have it DE’d.

However, if the Enchanter needs the shards for his own purposes, we give them to him in enchange for cheap or free gear and weapon enchants later because we helped him. Or if our tailor is low on frost orbs, he automatically gets them. Or if we’re just recouping raid costs, we just vendor the whole lot of them or put them in the guild bank for everyone later. I got a whole tank set in a week because my guildees were willing to pass all the items to me that dropped. It’s nice to have friends.

If you have to PUG though, drop the attitude and realize that everyone in there are greedy strangers so you’re going to have to part with those shards.

By enKrypt on Saturday, January 10th, 2009 at 4:07 pm

I don’t get it. Are you saying I should pass on stuff I don’t need so you can shard it and keep the shard? If I don’t get to roll on the shard, I’m rolling on the item to begin with.

By Murruhlin on Saturday, January 10th, 2009 at 4:38 pm

I do Enchanting/Tailoring and am the Tailor for the guild PopulusOfScientia, big guild, over 800+ members. So this issue is one I definitely have not ignored.

I play like this:

Group rolls rules go by as any green, blue, or epic item is rolled on greed first. Only needs are done if told b4 hand, before anyone else rolls, and people that say ‘Oh I didn’t know this would drop’ well, theirs add-ons, websites, etc. that will give that info, so look it up, and save yourself from looking like a boss-jacker.

On most occasions, I always roll on Green items as Greed. For Blue items, I don’t DE, just don’t. Unless their going to help me spec up, then I’m a greed roller on them. Same goes with Purple. The only time I roll Need is on patterns for Tailoring/Enchanting, or Leather items that are good with Intellect since I’m a Druid.

I think the casual player doesn’t seem to realize that instances aren’t always easy to get groups for, so while people do follow some guidlines of generosity in instances, the people that don’t have the mindset that, well, they should get everything they can out of this dungeon.

Greed in this case is better than Need folks. I’ ve been in those positions where somebody rolls Need on EVERY item, and I just got fed up with it and started doing the same. Needless to say, I haven’t partied up with them since, and have done well as a healing Druid on my own.

By Killigraphy on Saturday, January 10th, 2009 at 5:33 pm

Ok, who are these noobs coming in and ruining Enchanting?. This was never happening when it was 1-60, hell, I didnt even see a sprinkle of rolling on shard when it was 1-70. All of a sudden I see this new craze of rolling on a profession’s item. You cant be serious?. If no one needs it , than you as a DE roll greed if its green and need if its a blue. When the hell did this even become common? I’ve been playing for 4 yrs now…I’ve only started seeing this.

Of course Blizzard forced this upon the game, since you require greens and blues and yes even Epics to DE for YOUR profession. In my opinion that was going to cause problems. Enchanting is really a guild instance run thing. I rather have my friends run me through something a few times for the shards.

I guess in the end its never going to change, it just sounds to me like most DE’s buckled because people complained that they need for a profession. Regardless Its always the Leader’s fault. “master Loot” anyone?.

By Jesseryn on Saturday, January 10th, 2009 at 5:48 pm

While I do agree that if there was no enchanter there would be no shard, the system is so firmly in place that it is not likely to change soon. It’s not exactly fair to the enchanter, but it is what it is. And we’re only talking about boss drops here, not all random loot. Not all cloth goes to the tailor, same as not all random greens go to the enchanter. If there is a skinner/miner/herber in the group that is using his/her skills, no we don’t roll on all that, most of the rest of us have no real use for those mats. If I did need them for something, I have enough friends with a variety of skills that would gladly give or trade to me anything I needed just as I would for them.
In my guild all epic de mats go in the guild bank, That to me is perfectly reasonable since there would be nothing to de if the guild had not run and it is for the benefit of the whole guild. If I’m in a complete pug then everyone rolls on boss loot shards, that is expected. If I’m saving up for an enchant I’ll keep it, if not, I still roll and if I win I tell the chanter to keep it (unless they had a bad attitude). If I’m with friends we usually keep them in an alt bank in which we all have full access, for use within the group. It works for us.
I think who gets the shards depends on the group. I say, if you want all the shards, ask up front when joining a group. Most people in this game are greedy, only out for themselves. That will never change.

By Matt on Saturday, January 10th, 2009 at 6:02 pm

Thats true, but then every enchanter in the game should enchant other peoples things for a low amount of gold, plus there wouldnt be no “free with ur mats” because the mats are going to be very hard to get.

By jake on Saturday, January 10th, 2009 at 6:46 pm

what i used to do was wear only half of my epic gear and others were greens so when something droppped i would say that i needed the gear then shard it after i dropped group

By Daruhn on Saturday, January 10th, 2009 at 6:50 pm

I pissed off some old friends doing this once. First day of wrath we ran UK and I’ve been an enchanter since launch so when the first blue dropped and it was a downgrade for everyone I was excited for my first shard. When we got to the end of the instance one of the people in the group who I didn’t know asked when we were gonna roll for shards. I said “Well we’re not, I have 75 levels of enchanting to work on.” Needless to say he didn’t agree with my opinion.

By teeters on Saturday, January 10th, 2009 at 8:10 pm

hell no your not being greedy whenever some1 DEs stuff in my grp i always pass on rolling and say “u keep it” always hav always will. only time i roll if theres another skinner in the grp to see who gets first skin or if theirs a chest.
and besides whoever wins the shard will just give it to an enchanter so he can get an enchant for less because they “supllyed” the mat. so no u’r not greedy keep u’r shards basts! and every other enchanter out there!

By Kurtizzle on Sunday, January 11th, 2009 at 12:24 am

There is an easy common curtiousy that can solve this problem.

First of all at the start of the PuG say that you are an enchanter and that everyone should simply pass wont you dont need. You DE everything that wasn’t needed however you state that you keep a shard for the service then all remaining shards goto the /roll and the winning players.

Should there be another enchanter they are garuenteed a shard too. If the group agrees good. When it comes to uneeded epics you either just greed with the others, or you sacrafice your free shard to the group roll, not taking any rare shards and are allowed to DE the unneeded epic and keep the epic shard.

You always have to talk this over with your group before bosses, normaly while your summoning is a good idea.

FYI Only just recently dropped 441 Eng to take enchanting so my way of doing this was before being an enchanter, I never would go heroics without the ability of someone to DE!

Kurtizzle

By Caustyo on Sunday, January 11th, 2009 at 1:58 am

I agree, with your blog,

THIS KEEPS THE AH FROM BEING FLOODED,

By Munkey on Sunday, January 11th, 2009 at 2:33 am

This is why you roll need on most loot in a pug. Too many people focusing on themselves [as if that's anything new].
I’ll vendor my winnings and you can stuff yours.

By Maxhaas on Sunday, January 11th, 2009 at 3:24 am

Well imo if you dont want to share your shards, just tell ppl you just want to roll on the drops, and greed roll like everybody else. But you cant just need on gear to disenchant it. Even non-enchanters can get a few gold out of it.

By hornball on Sunday, January 11th, 2009 at 5:38 am

i see the point that people can vendor the items for gold, but you have too look at things like nodes and skins, if every1 gets the chance at taking the mats away from an enchanter, why should the enchanter not have a chance at taking the mats away from a miner or a skinner?

im an enchanter and have always offered my mats for roll, just because i know people will kick off and flame, and i just cba to type all of this whenever a blue drops.

dream shards are hardly even used for enchants… they are used by an enchanter to buy recipies, and therefore the enchanter should get them.

If you disagree, roll enchanting .. im currently 421 at every skill up will cost me 500g + ( and i cant just offer ‘your mats no fee’ because the enchants at this level are just plain useless )

By Komodovaran on Sunday, January 11th, 2009 at 6:40 am

It’s quite obvious to me, really. When a mining node or a herb is taken, the players without the corresponding proffesion are not able to profit from the node/plant.

When you disenchant an item for it’s shards, however, you are still taking away the items that could be given to a member of the group and vendored.

By Prankster on Sunday, January 11th, 2009 at 8:03 am

Just say you’re not an enchanter and greed like the rest of the group. If you win you will have your shard.

By Mr.Vincent on Sunday, January 11th, 2009 at 9:14 am

Enchanters SHOULD be able to keep their shards. Not being biased as I am just an AH junkie that sells herbs and ore/bars. If nobody can use the gear and there is a chanter to d/e why should the rest of the group get the shard? What are they gonna use it for? Not many enchants can be used from one or two mats. Sell it on the AH? Single shards are NOT a good seller on the AH. Chanters should be able to use THEIR shards.

By Redauroa on Sunday, January 11th, 2009 at 9:20 am

Well I am an enchanter. I really hate it but I have done it for so long and spend so much money on it I can’t see lossing all that. I never looked at enchanting the way you have. It puts the worst proff in a new light to me. If the whole group can roll on shards against me I should be able to roll on the mining nod or the skin. If I get enough ore or skin I should beable to have someone make something that I can DE dont ya think. Enchanting is the only profession that can not go out farming.

By techenforcer on Sunday, January 11th, 2009 at 9:41 am

I think it should be up to the enchanter

By Retrakk on Sunday, January 11th, 2009 at 12:38 pm

To be honest, you are being greedy.
The loot a miner/skinner/herb get are from regular trash areas, normally yielding low level materials. That trash also provides a good amount of green drops which you no doubt d.e. for your benefit when won. In a boss encounter you are guaranteed a high-level mat. when disenchating. Mats that are extremely expensive when compared to an a arctic fur or ore deposit, and mats that others who don’t enchant need to buy for their armor-buffs.
I say this being a ‘chanter, knowing it sucks to lose a shard, but also knowing there are many more to come, and I can always sell other mats in exchange for the shards i need.

By Caradraa on Sunday, January 11th, 2009 at 7:04 pm

But see, the thing of it is, the enchanter provides a service. They Need roll on the item and turn trash loot that would otherwise be vendored into something that can be sold for a higher amount on the AH. So just because you DE something does not mean its yours, it means you transmuted it into something more valuable. Think about it like this, if there were no miners in the group, the ore would be left there. If there were no skinners, the beast would go unskinned, but if there were no Enchanters, the item would be greed rolled and the winner would vendor it. The theory is that the shard goes to whoever would have won it anyway.

By John on Sunday, January 11th, 2009 at 10:00 pm

It’s the concept of farming. All miners can go out into the world and find nodes and farm that way. All skinners can farm leather all day. For herbalists… see miners and replace “nodes” with “flowers”
Then there’s the concept of a profession that is both a gathering and a crafting profession: aka Tailoring and Enchanting. Anyone can farm humanoids and get cloth or farm mobs of any kind and get greens/blue/epics. If you say enchanters should get the group’s kill’s shards then shouldn’t tailors get all the cloth for an instance run? That wouldn’t make sense, would it? You have to get your shards the same way as everyone can… you still have your crafting half to the profession that miners/skinners/herbalists don’t. That’s why we roll for shards.

By A. Walker on Monday, January 12th, 2009 at 4:43 am

The loot rules I use when leading a group:

Looting is set to Master Loot (Rare and up, RNG has already picked who gets a green when it drops on a corpse, so no need to roll on it again.)

We killed a boss, an item drops that some one wants, they are then given a chance to /roll 1000,

An item drops no one wants its given up to greed roll /roll 100

The winner of that item is given the option. DE or Sell?

Item gets DEed and shard given to the person that won.
The enchanter had the same chance to win the item as any one else and had the same choice. If he really feels that he don’t want to give away shards that he DEs he can simply not offer to DE. DEing is the choice of the enchanter at the start of the run. We don’t make them DE.

I have personally ran instances where we rolled on what dropped from a node, but really I could just not mine it right? That way it don’t get taken at all and goes to waste.

By Domenic on Monday, January 12th, 2009 at 5:50 am

I hear where you’re coming from but I completely disagree.

Next time you run a group and tell them you want to keep all the shards, I bet they vote for vendor greeding instead. However, I do think that as a DE-er you should be able to keep one shard of your choice per total number of people in the group… after all, without the Enchanter the items couldn’t be sharded. So if you were in a 5 man group and got 7 shards, you’d get to keep 2 and everyone else rolls for the rest.

We’re all running the instance and all need the gold, so if an Enchanter says they’re keeping it all, then I’m vendor greeding.

The difference with mining/skinning vs DEing is: those two professions require that skill to tap it - if an Enchanter wasn’t in the group, everyone would just roll on the item.

Can you tell where I stand on this?

By Dave on Monday, January 12th, 2009 at 8:55 am

I think the main difference, is the fact that the majority of players entering an instance need or are looking for the blue/purple items. Those are 100% obtainable in an instance, however, skins and mining nodes are not. It depends on the instance and the mobs. I do think it would be fair to roll for any blue/purple items obtained via skinning/mining though. Fortunately, you can avoid the issue entirely if you run with your guildies. Because good guildmembers help each other for free with the mats they obtain from working together in Instances.

By Mike on Monday, January 12th, 2009 at 10:10 am

Guild runs the enchanter keeps it but for pug runs there is usally a role. If I win I toss it in the gb.

By Paul on Monday, January 12th, 2009 at 10:48 am

I think most ppl have missed his point. He was annoyed that upon winning a greed roll on a green/blue that was going to be vendored he would DE for his own use.
After the group saw him DE they wanted to roll on the shard well… that’s just greed and not right.
I just DE stuff after the instance to avoid this.

By lawman30 on Monday, January 12th, 2009 at 10:50 am

It’s like others have said….the chanters DE the loot cos the shards are worth more than vendoring the loot. If the chanter doesn’t want to share the DE skill, they don’t need to but then they can’t expect the whole party to pass the loot to them for free shards.

I will never forget the first time I had this explained to me in a PUG by the chanter. Made a ton of sense to me so I figured it was the thing to do. I have always asked if we’re gonna roll on loot or if we have a chanter who wants to DE it. If you don’t want to DE it, don’t volunteer to. But come on…is it really that big of a deal to you? I am a prot warrior/engineer. I can make Mammoth Cutters, which I use for pulling mobs despite the fact ANY ammo would do the job. I will always ask gun hunters I group with what ammo they use and if they’d rather use Mammoth Cutters. The response is typically that they’d love to, their damage goes up, we kill mbos faster and finish the instance faster. In some cases, I’ve ended up with permanent clients buying Mammoth Cutters from me.

When we’re in an instance…aren’t we part of a team, anyway?

By George on Monday, January 12th, 2009 at 11:04 am

The point is that in PUG’s the other people apart from the enchanter are giving up a roll on an item (yes they are probably gonna sell it anyway, but it is still wow money), so if the enchanter is gonna keep all the shards then why are they not gonna roll on it ?

It is totally different to mining ore etc because if the miner was not there then nobody would get anything. If the enchanter is not there then u get a roll on a blue/epic that u can then sell for cash.

By Pauldy on Monday, January 12th, 2009 at 12:15 pm

The reason sharding is treated differently is that everyone else has a chance to roll on the item for profit at a vendor. If the group as a whole decides on DEing the item and rolling for shards instead of individually rolling for a quick bit of gold then it stands to reason they should have a chance on the DEed item instead of the original that was presented. If everyone rolled greed on the item and you won it, then whatever you get from DE or vendor is yours to keep. QQing that everyone passed on an item for you to DE then they win the shards is lame. Talk tot he group and explain you want first dibs at the shard it is fair. Instead of gold for echants discount for shards and learn how to deal around whatever you see as shortcommings to your profession.

By Jeramy on Monday, January 12th, 2009 at 12:41 pm

Comparing disenchanting an item to skinning/herbalism/mining is fundamentally unsound. If you’re in a group with no skinner, all skinnable mobs are left on the ground… there’s no way to get to the skin. Same goes with mining and herbalism… nodes are left unstruck and flowers left unpicked without someone requiring the talents to do so. As far as sharding boss loot is concerned… if you don’t have someone that can DE, someone will still get the loot to vendor. By saying “I’m the one doing the disenchanting, I deserve the shard” is like saying “I’m an enchanter, thus the rest of you should miss out on the gold you could get by vendoring this item.” To put it another way… if you’ve gotten to the point where you are taking no loot from heroic dungeons, your choices are A) run them for emblems, rep, stone keepers shard (where applicable), and some extra coin or B) run with an enchanter, get emblems, rep, SKSs and help the enchanter get mats. If it’s a guild run or you’re feeling especially generous, maybe you pick B. If not… A is clearly preferred. Non-skinners don’t expect to get skins, because they never do, the same way non-miners never get ore and non-herbalists never get herbs… you pass up skinnables, nodes, and herbs everyday without another thought. But when you kill a boss, you should be entitled to a fair shot at the loot (provided it’s not an upgrade for the other guy) even if you’re just going to use it for some quick cash. If you have an enchanter that is willing to really boost the worth of those items for the whole party… awesome.

All that being said, if you’re an enchanter, you’re providing a service and should be paid accordingly. A good rule of thumb I use is “the shard from the first DE’d boss loot is the enchanter’s to keep, and the enchanter can roll at the end just like everyone else” (that assumes you wait until the end to divy out shards, which, in my mind, is the most fair way to do it.)

I get the feeling from your rant that you’re getting into groups that say, “Hey, does anyone DE? Awesome, it’s your job to DE everything and get no compensation for the time and effort you’ve spent working up your Enchanting skill.” If these are PUGs… well, that’s probably just the way it’s going to be. Don’t run with PUGs. If this is happening in guild runs… talk to your GL about making a rule on shards. I bet the majority of the people doing this don’t really stop and think about it, and would have no problem giving the enchanter his due dilligence.

By Ironhoof on Monday, January 12th, 2009 at 1:07 pm

I say that enchanters should get all the trash items (if there are no needs). I mean, what’s the point in rolling for a green/blue item that you don’t need? What do you do with it? Sell it? How greedy can you get? It’s 5-10-15-20g. You get more money from the overall trash and bosses. At least the enchanters do something with it. In my group we use Group Loot for trash mobs because some say we lose time to /roll on trash items and when a green/blue item drops, the chat becomes full with greed rolls. We always say to the enchanters to roll need on it.

By noobalicious on Monday, January 12th, 2009 at 1:44 pm

I have an enchanter and I say you are being a greedy bastard….

By Uesegi on Monday, January 12th, 2009 at 2:51 pm

I’m an enchanter myself, and I must say that this is a great topic.
Miners/ Skinners and Herbers all say that if they wheren’t there, then nobody would get the stuff out of nodes, plants ect. That is indeed true. However if the enchanter wasn’t there, then the item couldn’t be made into a shard.
Sure the item could be sold, but not for as much as a shard.
Say the item sells for 10g, however the shard it produce sells for 15g. That is 5g profit you get for the enchanters “work”. So at least he should get the difference for it, or maybe even the right to buy the shard from the guy who wins it for THE VENDOR PRICE of the item DE’ed. That way the enchanter at least gets something for his work.
However I’d say it would be easier to roll for the item in question, and then if the enchanter wins, he can DE it and keep the shard.

By Crowler on Monday, January 12th, 2009 at 3:11 pm

Tons of comments, some well said.
Lets say I’m a rogue and opening the locked box in the instance. Should I keep all the loot with greens and everything? It costs me nothing to open the box and if I weren’t there you most probably would get nothing out of it. Lets say I kind enough to open the chest to get a chance on some additional loot and you’ll be kind enough to disenchant the blue I win by greeding. (but since noone can trade BoP items, the group wants you to DE the stuff and then roll on the non-BoP thingy)

By Egma on Monday, January 12th, 2009 at 3:11 pm

I say if its a PuG then it needs to be determined before the first blue drop as to wiether the blue
1)everyone rolls for the gear if no one needs to ware and if enchanter gets great they get the gear and in turn the shard and if someone else wins then they are stuck with vendor junk
2) enchanter gets and everyone rolls for shard
3) enchanter gets and keeps shard
…

In a pug I feel it should be 1 or 3 and not 2, because well the PuG didn’t help you get your enchanting to where you can turn that 2G vendor crap into something a lot more valuable… but in the same time if they really want vendor crap you couldn’t have gotten that blue to drop without the healer/tank/etc and so if they want to roll for the gear and not the shard thats fesiable as well the basic difference is that if they win they get x gold and if you win you get either mats or larger then x gold. The argument there is that though they didn’t help you raise your enchanting to be able to DE it, at the same time should a Pali not be able to get any money from an instance that doesn’t drop plate just becasue he didn’t go enchanting… Point is in a PuG there is points for both sides to this, yet neither side does anyone roll for the shard, its a choose between give the enchanter their mats or roll on the gear and if non enchanter wins then they get less money then the enchanter would have yet still some.

As for grouping with friends, no the enchanter should ALWAYS get the useless items to DE and should keep the DE mats. I mean if your friends more then likely you’ll use some mats you get through all your runs to help enchant the friend to make the runs easier anyways since till your fully geared and enchanted it shouldn’t be whats best for you or best money wise but rather whats best for the group.

To summarize, if its a real group and not a PuG it should always be “need before greed” in the fact of the enchanter NEEDS the mats to raise his enchanting to learn the good enchants to latter enchant onto every ones gear. And in a PuG if its a great PuG (yeah right) then it would be fair to deside to roll on the shards, but if its only an average PuG then the enchanter should get to keep the shards if they get the gear wiether they get it by defualt or get the gear by rolling for it since PuGs aren’t whats best for the group but rather best for individual since you don’t play with them nightly…

And noobalicious, you judge without even knowing the full content of what he is saying, you don’t know if he means a nightly group, or a good PuG, or a crapy PuG, your calling him selfish without even knowing what about… if its when the blue drops “oh if you don’t need I can DE” and then takes the shard without figuring out what happens first then yes, but if its not a PuG or if explain before hand then no.

By Jerm101 on Monday, January 12th, 2009 at 4:28 pm

I think where looking the wrong way here. Instead of u keeping ur shard, all instance drops should be rolled for. If I run an instance as dps (ret pally) like H VH the skinners make out big time. There is usually 1 Arctic fur and tons of leather. these stacks of leather should also be rolled for

By NightStalker321 on Monday, January 12th, 2009 at 4:53 pm

Ok, I havent read all the comments to this point because well, i think there are over 100. Anywhoo I have a simple solution to this problem.

Everone Greed on Items Not Wanted By Anyone

Winner Can Then Ask An Enchanter to DE, Preferably One In the Group

If it Is BoP Then Everyone Pass, Roll Outside Game System Winner Can Ask Enchanter to DE

Simple, and fair

By Marchell on Monday, January 12th, 2009 at 6:27 pm

Maybe this is a silly idea, but it is one I will start to try doing.

If you are and enchanter, use Autioneer or some other AH addon. Get a good history built up, so you know current item values.

When in an instance, offer your skills to DE. Point out that you know what the vendor price of the item is, and you know what the AH value of the mats are. When DEing an item, state the vendor cost is $X. Furthermore, state that you will give the winner of the roll $X+. DE the item and give the winner of the roll enough shards to cover the original vendor cost plus. Tell the winner how much they can AH the items for. Added value.

Or you can be sneaky. Unless I’m missing something about what others see with the DE process… the other pug members don’t know what the item DE’d to. Soooo….. just split the stack and take a shard before giving the mats to the winner of the roll.

Not that I bother with such stuff these days. I rarely pug these days, preferring to run with my guildies.

Marchell, lvl 75 holy priest, Echo Isles.

By Marchell on Monday, January 12th, 2009 at 6:48 pm

Or maybe this. With the Autioneer addon, you should be able to get the vendor prices for items. Offer to pay the winner of the roll vender price + nice fat tip for you to get the item to DE. Win-win, they get more G that if they vendored it, you get the mats to further you profession.

If the pug bitches that YOU should DE and allow the group to roll on the mats, object. If they say no, apologize and bail on the group. They have no right to earn way above and beyond vender/AH gold off of your hard-earned professional back.

By Rustyboy on Monday, January 12th, 2009 at 7:19 pm

I know what you mean Bastosa, however from another persons perspective.

You are doing the instance with other people which give you access to all these lovely blues to de. I need enchants too and any mats I can get my hands on are going to save me gold.

I was happy for the enchanter taking blues etc especially when I was grinding instances while leveling, however at 80 you can’t demand stuff to de. As someone mentioned above if you take that attitude into pugs etc they will just need/greed on the stuff to vendor.

As a tank even if the group does not wipe I have a durability loss to pay for, should I get the group to give me some gold to cover this? no. So the same goes for de’d stuff.

By zoova on Monday, January 12th, 2009 at 10:41 pm

this it totally true i hate losing shards

By Quickbeam on Tuesday, January 13th, 2009 at 3:52 am

Every crafting profession can be a pain to level, Enchanting and Blacksmithing probably the worst ones.
The problem I have with this, is the comment that Enchanters need to roll on these shards in order to level up. You sure this is the only way?
My enchanter has Tailoring. Best combination for Enchanting. Make the blues to lvl Tailoring, D/E them for Enchanting mats.
So maybe you dont have Tailoring? Find a friend who does perhaps? Then you CAN grind mats, just like everyone else, send them to him/her to craft.
You may not enjoy grinding mats for epics, but you can not possibly expect people to be ok with you needing epic shards in instances. And by the time your actually using epic shards, shouldn’t your Enchanting be high enough to simply expect people to supply all the mats for their enches?
I very rarely pug HC’s. All the greens I win go to D/E and the mats go in the GuildBank. Same for the BOE blues and any shards I win. Because of this I’ve helped to lvl up fellow guildies Enchanting, and I do not have worry about paying for any enchants.
So in my honest opinion, if an enchanter wants mats to serve only himself, then no, no shinies for you. If its for the good of the guild, absolutely. Same goes for all mats obtained from instances and raids, be it leather/herbs/shines.
If your PUG’ing, then I feel very sorry for you and perhaps you ought to shake your guild around, till they save you :]

By Ugorth on Tuesday, January 13th, 2009 at 5:15 am

Seems to me like you are trying to double dip a bit. You want everyone to pass to you so you have mats for your trade skill that you charge people for and expect them to have the mats that you take in the first place… Might as well just put the mats on the Auction House for an insane price while you’re at it so the people who got you the mats in the first place get to pay you for the mats and then pay you for the service too. Bravo for ultimate greediness.

Only way this is fair is if it is won by a greed roll on the drop. Otherwise perhaps you should consider compensating the rest of the group for the mat that you require to level your skill.

Nobody ever said you HAVE to shard the drops let alone tell anyone you are an enchanter in the first place.

By Raak on Tuesday, January 13th, 2009 at 5:40 am

I dont think its greedy at all and I think enchanters should get to keep the shards, or people should roll for the ores/leathers aswell.

The argument that you are double dipping isnt valid imo.
The same can be said about skinning/mining. You get to keep the mats, and you put them on the AH where others buy them when they want crafts made.

The thing with enchanting is that people expect to get the service for free, meaning that almost everybody starts complaining when you ask a fee for a rare enchant. When a BS or JC does it it is totally acceptable, but when a enchanter does it most people start whining. This is caused by the people that level up enchanting by doing enchants for free, i realize that. My point is that the only way to make profit from enchanting (unless you have mongoose) is by selling shards/dusts.

Since it apparently is considered fair for everyone to roll on the shards, most mats you buy wont be from enchanters, so there goes your double dipping theory. This also causes to overflood the AH with underpriced mats, wich makes enchating an even worse money-maker.

Then there is the argument that Blues/epics can be sold to a vendor, and nodes/skins have no value when there isnt a miner/skinner in the group. Fair enough, but then it would be totally fair for the enchanter to ask a fee for disenchanting the items, wich i guarantee you will lead to alot of crying, especially in PuG’s.

My solution? I dont tell the group i’m an enchanter (most dont bother to check for ring enchants anyway), or i refuse to do it. I will just greed roll on an item like everyone else, and De it for myself.

By teddy on Tuesday, January 13th, 2009 at 6:22 am

preach!

By Sunjewel on Tuesday, January 13th, 2009 at 7:01 am

I personally think that it is a little unfair to the enchanter that the shards get rolled on. I understand that the whole group fought to get the item that was DE’ed, but what if the Enchanter only went to the instance for the shards-not for anything else. If everyone rolled on the shards, theres a chance the Enchanter will get nothing. I think that the Enchanter should get at the very least one of the shards. But this is my opinion, doesn’t mean much.

By TenteiKarite on Tuesday, January 13th, 2009 at 8:55 am

I’m lucky enough not to have that problem. I’m the only high-level enchanter in my small (13-18-man) guild, so I get all the unwanted gear passed to me, so I can enchant their gear without having to attach a pricetag for my spent time and effort.

-T/K

By RM on Tuesday, January 13th, 2009 at 1:42 pm

The reason you don’t get exclusive rights to the shard is that every member has some equity on the value of the item that drops. You can choose not to disenchant it but it must go through a greed roll process regardless.

The only difference you make is that you (potentially) increase the value of the item by disenchanting it. For that you can charge a fee if you are a douchebag, I suppose.

By Alayea on Tuesday, January 13th, 2009 at 11:10 pm

98 comments so far. Think we’ll best the “I Don’t Care About Your Ding” entry?

Anyway, I don’t think there’ll be a resolution of the DE roll issue short of Blizzard overhauling the enchanting profession. Best approach a player can take is to set the rules before doing an instance/raid.

By Rofo on Wednesday, January 14th, 2009 at 12:13 pm

Simple solution. You’ve got a douche bag DE’er in your group, everyone rolls greed to vendor the item. That way he/she doesn’t have to waste their precious DE time. Maybe there is an accidental misdirect on the next boss, who knows, funny how those things happen.

I guess I would feel more sympathy if there was a node of shards and we (the rest of the group) felt entitled to them, but that’s not the case.

You can help the whole group and have a really good chance to get 1st shard just for being a team player or you can roll for the gear just like everyone else. Maybe just shut up about being an enchanter if you don’t want to have to share.

By Aberu on Thursday, January 15th, 2009 at 9:59 pm

They roll on shards because shards cost more on the AH than the vendor price of the blues being rolled on generally. Because of this you might as well make use of the trash drop. Hey we could say, screw you DE’er you are going to whine, how about we all just greed everytime on blues we don’t need when there is a DE’er there, pretty much reducing your chances at a shard to 0. There is a fundamental difference.

- Nodes, skins, etc… can only be accessed by people with that skill.

-Shards can be made from an item that could otherwise by greeded and vendored anyways, hence the point of the DE was just to increase the value of the greed roll, that’s it.

By Girlofmoo on Friday, January 16th, 2009 at 5:10 pm

In my opinion, I don’t think you should GIVE them the option to roll for shards.
Reason being, if a non-enchanter gets the shards, there are only really two ways to benefit from it:
1) Have YOU (or another enchanter) use them to enchant their stuff. or
2) Sell them on the auction house.

And I have a MAJOR problem with people selling stuff on the AH that is “off-profession.” Most people that sell off profession stuff on the AH, usually end up either flooding it with single items WAYYY under priced, leaving the enchanters with NO means of making profits from their REALLY expensive profession, or they OVER price things to the point that people who are actually IN that profession, have NO means of purchasing those items, to level their already REALLY expensive professions.

I think in a lot of ways, enchanters REALLY do get the shaft in regards to expense with their profession, especially since any greens they pick up while they are questing, and any old gear that gets replaced, and any quest rewards that aren’t upgrades, get DEed, and therefore they lose the gold that would come from vending and/or AHing those items.

Easy solution for most of this:

ENCHANTERS!!! REFUSE TO DE FOR INSTANCE GROUPS! Keep with the “greed” rolls, and if you WANT an enchant (or are feeling particularly nice to your lovely enchanter :D) ask the Enchanter to DE the item for you and give you an enchant off of it. They get a level, you get enchants…

Another possible suggestion:

(Really will probably only work with a 5 man MAX 10 man instance group.)

The Enchanter offers best possible enchants for free with any mats picked up through the instance/raid. So basically, any greed item that is picked up, let the enchanter have them to DE, and at the end of instance, see what you you have the mats to enchant, and do /roll for the different enchants that you can do. The enchanter is able to level his enchanting at the end, the members of the group are able to get level appropriate free enchants. And if you even state BEFORE you start the /roll call, the other members of the raid/party are able to pick which one could benefit them most.

just an idea!

(I have tried the second option before, worked VERY well, enchanter didn’t feel cheated, and neither did the other members. PLUS! They actually end up saving a lot of gold for enchants, AND the enchanter saved a lot of gold and time grinding for greens with those levels he/she can gain….)

By Rob on Saturday, January 17th, 2009 at 11:35 am

The only problem is that the shards arent worth much anymore maybe 10g on my server, its almost better to sell the gear. So if you won by rolling greed on it you can do whatever you want with it.

By Hydro on Tuesday, January 20th, 2009 at 8:49 am

my friend sometimes has this problem.. however he now saves most of the Blues or Epics he gets till hes out of the group so that when he does disenchant them nobody else can get the shards he gets it does make perfect sense..
i would watch out for the bags slots left though may be problematic in which case get a DE predicter and then DE the items that will give the worst rewards. i know this might sound cruel but it is the only option to be the enchanter that gets the rewards he deserves

By Frostynipplz on Friday, January 23rd, 2009 at 7:15 am

Enchanting is probably one of the most, if not THE most sought after profession in the game. Therefore, shards/dusts have a higher value. Mining is a moneymaker, but the real value is in STACKS. Same with skinning. Bottom line…….discuss loot rules BEFORE entering an instance. If they don’t satisfy you then find people who share your ideas.