Posted by Tyranis on Friday, June 19th, 2009 - 62 Comments
Tags: 3:2, blood, death knights, dk, DPS, Frost, nerf, Patch, tanking, Tanks, unholy
In the upcoming patch, death knights will be the only class to receive a talent point refund because, once again, they are getting an overhaul. Some of these changes are nerfs, some are buffs and others are redesigns of how the spells and abilities function. The death knight community is already analyzing all of the data and surmising why these changes have occurred. Let’s explore some of these changes, but keep in mind that all of this is subject to change before this patch goes live.
Blood Strike: The bonus damage this ability receives from diseases on the target has been increased to 50% per disease.
This change is creating quite a stir in the death knight community. That’s a huge buff to that ability and some folks are speculating that it’s a typo and they meant to say “increased by 50% per disease”, which would mean it increases from 12.5% to 18.75% per disease and not 50%. If the change does remain as written, then blood strike could replace heart strike in the blood rotation and some of the scourge strikes in the unholy rotation. The blue post found here seems to indicate that it’s not a typo, however, it’s already been reduced on their latest internal build, which would make it different than the patch notes.
Chains of Ice: Now reduces movement by 95% instead of 100%. The main effect of this change will be that targets of Chains of Ice will not have to re-issue a movement command to continue moving.
This is a change for pvp and will probably come as a relief to many hardcore pvpers. However, I don’t see DKs making much of a stink over it. Chains of ice is still amazing and has the same basic function.
Frost Presence: 10% bonus health reduced to 6% bonus stamina.
Icebound Fortitude: Cooldown increased to 2 minutes.
Toughness: This talent now grants 2/4/6/8/10% armor instead of 3/6/9/12/15%, placing it in line with similar abilities of other classes.
Veteran of the Third War: Stamina bonus reduced to 1/2/3%.
Ouch! The death knight tanks take another heavy blow with the nerf bat. In patch 3.1.3 frost presence armor bonus was reduced by 20%. Now we see a 4% nerf to the stamina bonus and the doubling of the cooldown on the death knight’s main survival ability. In addition, the armor and stamina talents in the blood and frost trees are also taking a hit.
It seems that they are trying to make death knight tanks more like the other tanks. The original design felt like death knights would have more frequent cooldowns to push to offset the fact that they do not have a shield and cannot block. These changes, however, make them feel more like the other tanks and icebound fortitude is now more in line with other tank talents like last stand.
If I’m being objective, I think the icebound fortitude change can solve some issues. Recently, my guild took down General Vezax using a paladin main tank. It was a little obnoxious knowing that we could survive the surges of darkness easier if our main tank was a death knight solely because icebound fortitude had a one-minute cooldown.
Much of the screaming from the DK tank community seems to revolve around the fact that paladin tanks are getting a decent amount of buffing, including this hard to believe change:
Ardent Defender: Redesigned. Currently, any damage taken by the paladin while at 35% health or below is reduced. Instead, any attack that would reduce the paladin to 35% health or below has its damage reduced. In addition, once every 2 minutes an attack that would have killed the paladin will fail to kill, and instead set the paladin’s health to 10/20/30% of maximum.
If I’m reading that correctly, that’s a passive guardian spirit every two minutes? I’m sure glad my guild often runs with two protection paladins!
Frost Strike: This ability can now be dodged, parried, or blocked. Weapon damage bonus reduced to 55%, down from 60%.
Frost strike hits hard and it was probably viewed as too much burst in pvp especially considering it couldn’t be mitigated. The slight reduction of damage is probably going to be a wash considering that blood strike is getting buffed. The blue post here, seems to indicate that the frost dps is being spread out a bit more and not consolidated on just one ability.
Dancing Rune Weapon: This ability now has a fixed duration of 12 seconds (which can still be modified by its glyph) and a fixed cost of 60 runic power.
Summon Gargoyle: The gargoyle now flies lower to the ground, making it susceptible to melee attacks. This ability now has a fixed duration of 30 seconds and a fixed cost of 60 runic power.
These are the 51 point talents for blood and unholy specs. The jury seems mixed on these changes. While I’m not sure if it’s an overall buff or nerf to the damage of these spells, what I do know is these spells will be a lot easier to use now that they have a fixed runic power cost and duration. Currently, the timing of when you use these abilities can drastically affect the amount of extra dps they give you. Pop them at the wrong time and you have just wasted a precious cooldown. So I’m eager to see these changes in action.
Threat of Thassarian: New 3-point talent. When dual-wielding, your Death Strikes, Obliterates, Plague Strikes, Blood Strikes and Frost Strikes have a 30/60/100% chance to also deal damage with your off-hand weapon. Off-hand strikes are roughly one half the effect of the original strike.
Dual-wielding used to be one of the top approaches to take for a dps death knight. Recently, however, many of the changes have all but killed it. So in patch 3.2, the dual wielding death knights might make a comeback with this new talent in the frost tree.
Desecration: This talent has been reduced to 2 points for 25/50% snare and no longer increases damage done by the death knight. It has also been moved one tier earlier in the tree and its spell effect has been made more transparent.
Desolation: New talent. This talent is in the position formerly occupied by Desecration. It causes Blood Strikes to increase all damage the death knight deals by 1/2/3/4/5% for 12 seconds.
Interesting. So the current desecration is being split into two separate talents. Desecration is now mostly a pvp ability. The good news is, the infamous desecration graphic will now be much less prominent in pve, which will make most raid leaders happy. However, the speculation is desolation may not be worth taking because the 12 second duration may mean that it is not active at all times with the current rotations. We’ll have to see if this new talent gets modified at all before it releases.
Blood of the North: Reduced to a 3-point talent. Increases Blood Strike and Frost Strike damage by 5/10/15%. There is now a 33/66/100% chance whenever you hit with Blood Strike or Pestilence that the Blood Rune will become a Death Rune when it activates.
Lichborne: Duration reduced to 10 seconds, and cooldown reduced to 2 minutes.
There isn’t much to comment on here. The talent points saved on blood of the north are probably meant to make room for the new dual-wielding talent in frost. The lichborne change makes it more dynamic since you can use it more often, but need to be more exact on the timing.
Scourge Strike: Weapon damage bonus reduced to 40%, down from 45%. Damage increased by 10% per disease on the target, down from 11%.
Unholy Blight: This talent has been redesigned. It no longer deals damage to nearby targets. Instead, when you deal damage with Death Coil, the target will take periodic damage for 10 seconds equal to 30% of the damage done by Death Coil. This damage accumulates in the same way as Ignite and Deep Wounds.
Last but not least, some big changes to the unholy tree. Scourge Strike is the bread and butter for the unholy DK. The nerf in damage seems partly pvp related. Since scourge strike deals shadow damage, it is not reduced by armor and can be a wrecking ball. Blizzard doesn’t seem to like large amounts of burst coming from a single ability. The reduction in damage on scourge strike is offset by the buff to blood strike, which should see more use. This may also be a push for unholy DKs to get more benefit out of armor penetration. Items with armor penetration are rife in Ulduar and currently it’s not a stat that does too much for unholy DKs who spend most of their time scourge striking shadow damage.
The unholy blight redesign is one of the biggest changes for death knights in this patch. Unholy blight is the signature spell of the unholy tree and the main reason that this spec is normally associated with AOE damage. Well that all changes in 3.2. Unholy blight no longer deals AOE damage at all, in fact, it is not even a spell, it is a passive ability that adds a bleed effect to your death coils.
This change really alters the flavor of the unholy death knight and I’m not sure how I feel about it. Don’t get me wrong, this change may turn out to be powerful, but I thought it was interesting how each of the three dps specs for death knights felt unique. Blood was the heavy hitting single target crusher, frost seems to be evolving once again as the dual-wielding spec and unholy was the master of AOE damage. Well I guess we’ll have to wait and see how unholy feels after the changes go live.
In summary, death knights are looking at some tanking nerfs and a reduction to burst and AOE damage in 3.2. On the other hand, some abilities will be easier to use, dual-wielding should be viable again and raid members should no longer die by standing in fires that are obscured by spell effects.
What do you think of the death knight changes coming in 3.2? Is there anything you’re particularly excited or angry about?
Related Posts: Starting Next Week: Death Knight Special, This Week: Days of Knight and Karazhan, Ten Days of Knight: Day One, Ten Days of Knight: Day Four, Coming Up: The Halls of Lightning and Ten Days of Knight,
By barny on Friday, June 19th, 2009 at 11:32 am
i am barny
By jack on Friday, June 19th, 2009 at 12:07 pm
No.
no
no
no
not again they keep dumping theese nerfs on us
By DrDock on Friday, June 19th, 2009 at 12:14 pm
WoW hates Frost tanks
WoW hates Unholy AoE
WoW hates Engineers
I guess go blood or go home.
By Bruknar on Friday, June 19th, 2009 at 12:16 pm
This is bull !
By Cilraaz on Friday, June 19th, 2009 at 12:17 pm
Doing the calculations based on my own DK Tank, I stand to lose a bit over 3k hp (about 7%) and have physical damage taken increase by about 2.8%. This patch is going to hurt, and frankly is a bit overdone. The tank nerfs would have been fine if they had just increased the IBF cooldown and cut the Vo3W stamina in half. Frost Presence didn’t need changed, nor did toughness.
By Tfw on Friday, June 19th, 2009 at 12:37 pm
I think they do not want DKs to tank in WoW at all. In fact, it seems they do not want the Death Knight class in the game at all. They have nerfed our tanks, now they nerf (Yes I see ost of the changes as a nerf) DPS too. I am usually Main Tank in my guild runs to Ulduar, but it may seem that the protection warrior and paladin from the second raid group might take over and push be back to the 10-man raids. Why blizzard, Why?!
By Dave on Friday, June 19th, 2009 at 1:07 pm
Well, as a frost dps DK this isn’t too bad for me. All I need to do is get expertise capped to overcome the nerf on Frost Strike. Blood Strike is only a small part of my damage, but hey it’s a buff.
One of my guilds main tanks is a DK, and when we told him about the changes on vent last night he was to put it lightly, pissed.
By Zarox on Friday, June 19th, 2009 at 1:52 pm
@ All the QQ before me.
GET OVER IT!!! Every class gets nerfed. Its a damn MMO, things change, and always will!
The DK is a new class, and the Devs are still learning it themselves. They have been with all 9 other classes for 5 years now and they know how they work. The DK has all of 8 months!
Ya know, I think the WoW community would be much better if @$$%! like you guys would just quit if you cant tank changes.
By Dilkesy on Friday, June 19th, 2009 at 2:03 pm
Gr8 another dk tank nerf. I have been a frost tank. then when they nerfed that howling blast to bottom i went to blood. Then with dual spec i had to find a new dps spec so now i went unholy. FFS now they are nerfing unholy dps. why are they making dks worse???
By Kaandre on Friday, June 19th, 2009 at 2:04 pm
Do you guys seriously think that the nerf to icebound fortitude was unwarrented? A 50% damage reduction on a 1 minute cooldown - that is pretty OP if you spend a moment to think about it.
And DKs are a brand new class. They didn’t have 3 years of iteration to get balanced. These tweaks are needed to make sure they stay balanced with the other classes.
By Dyra on Friday, June 19th, 2009 at 2:22 pm
Oh my guild leader (or our off tank DK) is gonna LOVE this. Overall it feels like huge nerf, but if it means that Prot Warrs and Bears might get be a little more favoured over DKs for once then I’m all for it ^^. Sorry all you DKs out there but while you’re a ‘heroic’ class you’re getting pegged down to the level of the rest of us.
Besides as it has been pointed out before, all the classes have been on this rollercoaster of buffs and nerfs. So you got hit by the nerf bat? Suck it up. You’ll be buff batted again sooner or later.
Oh and I’m slightly miffed at the protadins having a passive 2 minute Guardian Spirit. Way to make my 51 point talent feel even more useless. I hate the fact that it needs to be glyphed to even become somewhat useful and now this :(.
By Lawkes on Friday, June 19th, 2009 at 3:34 pm
_-_ We’re crying because this nerf will not set us equal with other tanks, it will set us lower. Shield tanks are getting a huge buff, shield block is being doubled. This will make Death Knights the least needed tanks in the game. I bid you good day, sir.
By Merrimas on Friday, June 19th, 2009 at 4:40 pm
@Kaandre
Icebound Fortitude provides 20% damage reduction plus extra reduction with defense, not 50%. I think you were thinking of a paladin’s divine shield.
By onthebuses on Friday, June 19th, 2009 at 5:11 pm
WTF? Where are the Rogues nerfs in this patch? Just read full patch notes. Nerf them down. They can now use axes. O Blizzard loves rogues. PvP for a Rogue must be heaven
And on the DK side. These nerfs are uncalled for ( except chain of ice , as that is a bitch to many classes ) but you know what, with all of these changes….
*emblem changes ( easier for T8.5 gear you farm heroics - 5 mans like UK HC - No shit )
*Daily heroic will reward 1 or 2 of the new emblems.
Plus many more, Blizzard/Activision are clearly aiming towards the causals. Good or Bad? You know what?
Tbh With all this info, game changes, I am 50/50 on alot of things, or am i. Blizzard /confused
By Angel on Friday, June 19th, 2009 at 5:30 pm
Blizzard keeps taking the cool stuff away from the Unholy tree.
First removing the Unholy DK’s ability to be a Ghoul when they die.
Now Desecration and Unholy Blight? Sheesh.
Next they’ll take away Death & Decay.
By Fony on Friday, June 19th, 2009 at 5:54 pm
To be quite honest.
Its about fucking time.
Finally i might main tank a freaking boss over a frost dk. No matter how much gear i get, hes still fucking taking my spot!
Woot for protadin buffs.
I do feel bad for Unholy dps tho. i love unholy blight.
By Weeney on Friday, June 19th, 2009 at 6:09 pm
im glad im blood specd but my tank spec keeps getting shot to hell why don’t they start nerfing a class that deserves it. I swear DKs are the Jews of wwow2 stop blaming us for everything. You suck because you suck not because are class is better, you just need to learn how to play yours.
By Zvonimir on Friday, June 19th, 2009 at 6:34 pm
Performance aside, I think it’s very disappointing that unholy blight is practically out of the game. I’ve played unholy since day one of being a DK and the ‘fun’ keeps packing up and moving out of town.
As Angel pointed out, it was quite a blow for me when we lost the ability to come back as a ghoul after death (not to mention that it came after a reduction in duration in a prior change), because it was just fun to run around as one after you died and I would always have a laugh about it. The thing sucked for dps but it was bloody entertaining! Now I won’t be able to send my army of malevolent bugs in a cloud of death? Where’s the fun in that?
I’m sure they have a good reason for the changes because of game mechanics or to balance things out or what not, and I will not argue with that. I also don’t really care much about topping dps charts or handing other player’s asses back to them but when they start taking the fun out of playing the class it makes me wonder why they even bothered with death knights. Couldn’t they just find another way to nerf the fun stuff without removing it completely from the game play? Maybe our definition of ‘fun’ varies a lot more than I thought.
At least I’ll still have my corpse explosion.
By Kawane on Friday, June 19th, 2009 at 6:48 pm
WoW now I feel real messed up with how blizz is treating Unholy DKs this class is known for AoE now the 2ed main AoE is gone. Heck most of the stuff that is getting done to unholy could have bin balanced out and not completely done away with. /sigh ahh well no point in QQing now
By Ommadon on Friday, June 19th, 2009 at 7:42 pm
@ Everyone who says the nerfs are fine because of “balancing”:
No.
Learn how the Death Knight class works.
When you’ve played since the beta and you have som sort of understanding of how the class works, then you can talk about balancing it with respect to other classes.
After playing almost every class in the game (sans Priest), I can say that Death Knights were balanced at one point, but this is going too far, as far as tanking is concerned. Either Blizzard wants Death Knight tanks to quit, or there is something we’re not aware of behind the scenes.
Expect every tank spot to be filled by a shield class now. Death Knight tanks are going to go the shape of the pear it seems.
By Ellendii on Friday, June 19th, 2009 at 8:58 pm
crap,
i was having fun completly raping ever class except druids. i i actually might die. but seriously: i hate these nerfs
By Tharon on Friday, June 19th, 2009 at 9:03 pm
I know I’m somewhat of a noob here, only because I started playin jist b4 TBC launched, but shouldn’t a “HERO” class be a little stronger than its counterparts? I understand that there is a HUGE difference ‘tween a little stronger and OP, but it sounds to me that Blizz is taking away this “HERO” class and jist givin us another Plate wearer afterwhat, maybe 7 months?
By Keltoroq on Friday, June 19th, 2009 at 11:57 pm
Ok This changes are very simple.
Each time my frost Dk is getting worse and worse.Whats the point with going frost anymore.
What next remove the armor bonus a little bit more.
Just go blood i say to you.Forget about frost…Now it’s over…
By Daywind on Saturday, June 20th, 2009 at 12:17 am
What a pack of whiney losers. Your EZ-Mode tanks now maybe require a bit of skill. If you’re in such a backwards guild that the class of the tank is more important than the quality of the player mashing the buttons then either re-roll or join a real guild.
There will not be a single encounter that you wont be able to successfully tank as a DK, it just might be a little easier for another class, which is fine because you guys have been on the easy train for a while now.
I’m a druid tank and I’m not concerned in the slightest about losing spots to shield tanks (or DK’s for that matter) because they are perceived to be better in a given situation…we run with good players rather than classes. The ability of a player to get the most out of there chosen class/talent build will always count for a lot.
By Deathvamp on Saturday, June 20th, 2009 at 1:17 am
This is bullcrap Death Knights need to stop being nerfed luckily retadins are being nerfed 2!!!
By Gealar on Saturday, June 20th, 2009 at 1:45 am
It appears that the judgment of the wise hasn’t been fixed yet. I was hoping it would be fixed soon, but I suppose they might not mention it either. Time will tell.
By Ryan Scorpion on Saturday, June 20th, 2009 at 4:27 am
It just seems that the overpowered class of WoW is now whining because they are being brought down closer to everybody else’s level. I do a lot of PVP as a Holy Paladin and the only ones that can seem to send me to the grave are Death Knights. Their burst damage is insane, you basically have to pop your cooldowns to stand any chance of killing them and what good is that? You then have to wait 5 minutes or more for them. What ever happen to the drag it out, fight to the last HP point and stand a chance? I die and see the DK run off with almost full health. So this is why Blizzard is doing this, to make things more enjoyable for the rest of us.
By Ibringdeath on Saturday, June 20th, 2009 at 6:14 am
I’m god damn close to re-rolling class again because of blizzard fucking up my tanking. I’m a god damn tank that changed to dk for a new playing style when tanking, and they are making us so god damn awfull a pally/warrior/druid seems like almost an obvious choice over us if we are equally geared…
By Ibringdeath on Saturday, June 20th, 2009 at 6:16 am
Just to clear it up. wow was ment for PVE and so fucking up for all us pve players on a PVE realm just cause dk is OP in pvp is god damn bullshit, make DK’s different on pve and pvp realms then, i dont give a crap, but dont fucking destroy our class….
By e4pl on Saturday, June 20th, 2009 at 7:29 am
Okay, so once again people cry about PvP and PvE gets nerfed?
And what’s this bringing Toughness “in line” with other classes nonsense - I thought DK’s were supposed to be special. At the very least if you nerf Toughness, then buff our Avoidence (or did you forget we cant block).
Now that we have the Dual Talent capability I think the time has come to have completely different Talent Trees for PvP vs. PvE. Or maybe different Trees on PvP servers versus PvE servers. This constant messing with PvE to satisfy PvP’ers is getting pretty annoying…I thought this was WoW not Warhammer?
By Stevo on Saturday, June 20th, 2009 at 8:36 am
yeah, I don’t pvp, so i can’t talk for that, but a scourge strike nerf and an unholy blight deletion is the last thing i need
By korbain on Saturday, June 20th, 2009 at 10:04 am
This is absolutely ridiculous blizz has to stop messing with us Dk’s I mean it takes alot more work to tank with a dk then any other class and there just making it harder and as for messing with unholy blight if they dont put it back normal there is gonna be some pissed off unholy Dk’s
By Weeney on Saturday, June 20th, 2009 at 11:40 am
I think what they are doing to frost tanking is bull shit and you prety much just changed the way Unholy plays, and made it so their tanking capabilities are now gone.
I can personally say im happy I play blood spec.
By Atlas on Saturday, June 20th, 2009 at 12:44 pm
i like these changes. im really liking the big boost to dual wields and blood strike, and although i love unholy blight i just hate having to keep it up all the.
im just wondering how unholy blight will work with death coils. will each death coil reset the charge ? i would hate sending off a critical hit death coil and then sudden doom activating and reducing its damage.
gargoyle and dancing rune weapon is a welcome change for ease of use and you get to save your runic power for better things.
desolation is also a welcome change, as youre not being confined to a small area, plus with blood strikes activating it you can save on unholy runes.
the frost tanking spells were balanced and thats fine. im sure you wont be able to tank as well as other classes, but you can still tank.
frost strike nerf is ok i guess, it pretty much made rune strike worthless.
the only thing im disappointed in seeing is still no increased duration to horn of winter : / and maybe letting chains of ice activate things like merciless combat and glacial rot (since i use chain of ice instead of icy touch on one of my specs)
By Bamii on Sunday, June 21st, 2009 at 5:48 am
/target Blizzard
/pat on back
This is great news, love knowing that Blizz is still paying attention to equalizing the game.
Also for all you DK’s that say it’s your skill that allows you to spank other classes, stop kissing your own butt and thinking you just know how to play your class. If your class is getting nerf’d then all the awesome stuff you were doing before was because YOU WERE OVRPWR’D, now you all just have to figure out how to play a “more” equal class.
Good Luck DK’s and Retadins.
By Zee on Sunday, June 21st, 2009 at 12:57 pm
LAWL @ all the DK noobs
By Maltreth on Sunday, June 21st, 2009 at 9:44 pm
In the Future we should have two seperate comment areas for pvp and pve regarding nerfs, I never know if im really being called a noob or not.
but seriously i dont think that these changes are as big as we think they are. we just have to adjust is all, im looking forward to trying out dualwield again though.
By Jay S. on Monday, June 22nd, 2009 at 3:25 am
Thanks Blizzard why did you make a hero class in the 1st place? >.> Don’t you love nerfs!
By Atlas on Monday, June 22nd, 2009 at 5:33 am
Jay S. is right, blizzard should do the right thing and delete his ass so he can level his death knight from level 1 like all the other non-hero classes.
By cocopuff on Monday, June 22nd, 2009 at 12:04 pm
bull shit
By cocopuff on Monday, June 22nd, 2009 at 12:45 pm
jalous bastards we get it you dont like DKs so you dont have to beat the crap out of hte lifeless body taht is the DK they wont anything left soon they are about 2 pounches away from a knockout and then you might aswell take away the DK class away this patch is turnng out to be one of the worst seems the only way blizz an make a petch work is by adding new content and even then they still manage to screw it up i am not even goig to say anything about the noobs who actauly like this change because its really not thier fault its like being mad a hiv + person for having HIV i am mad at blizzard for listening are they fucking blind or just mentally retarded or both first they screw up tne mounds then they screw up the new BG and now they are completly screwing up DK their hero class it ems blizz is detormened to bring WOW to its nease and beat it sanceless this game is not about pvping its about pve and DK are taking another blow to the cruch no other class is getting this much bull shit ya i know that both rogues and paly have gotten some serious shots to the junk nothing compared to the DKs if only this was first nerfs DKs started at teh top and they plunged to the bottom i could deal with making DKs “egual” in power to the other classes but it went way past that. or here is an idea if you really do feel that DK are OP isntead of beating the living crap out of the DKs why not buff the rest of the classes to the levels of the DKs who wont be happy with stronger class the only one in disadavantage thier are the mobs of azeroth bt i know blizz is gointo dish oout another dish of crap and completly ignore all other possibilitys
By Teal on Monday, June 22nd, 2009 at 1:25 pm
QQ I finally get my deathkinght geared for tanking and then Bliz gets to play whack-a-DK with the nerf hammer.
Nothing i can do about it so might as well buy more stamina gems
By Ibringdeath on Tuesday, June 23rd, 2009 at 9:36 am
U oughta be a fucking retard for calling the dks noobs for screaming about these messed up nerfs.
The main problem in PVP the way i see it is that DK easily beat dps over other classes equally geared quite often, meaning there is a problem with the dps dk, not the tanking one, so instead of making us pathetic lowlife tanks and a easy peasy killable target, maybe nerf our damage instead of INCREASING it like ure doing now..
By jimmyjammy on Tuesday, June 23rd, 2009 at 11:38 am
you realise if the new dual whielding talent is going to be very low, it’ll boost unholy dps so much that it makes up form the lose of unholy blight, + the Bloodstike HUGE buff .
blood spec i dont think will affect with this so much, unless heart strike will also affect with offhand but i very much doubt that.
unholy dosent want to be a AE spec, it’ll be a nice more single target orient dps spec like blood and thats nice
By Jason Carter on Tuesday, June 23rd, 2009 at 6:14 pm
You know, I love seeing people telling DKs that it’s about time. It’s not an issue to nerf something if it does indeed balance it out with other classes. Blizzard doesn’t balance the classes. They always overdo the nerfs. I have a feeling that this will always be the case. We just happen to be the ones hit with the nerf bat this time.
Me, being an UH DK, I won’t be hurt much. I hate seeing UB disappear though.
I was toying with the idea of trying my hand at tanking, but I don’t think that’ll be happening. The nerfs to our tanking abilities is definately taking it too far. Many people have pointed out that nerfing IBF would have solved many of the problems. Instead, they are esentially destroying the dks ability to tank.
@Ryan Scorpion
Oh, and I love seeing a pally come on here saying that we need nerfed because, in his own words, “the only ones that can seem to send me to the grave are Death Knights.” Come on many, because we’re the only ones that can beat you, we need nerfed?
By Jason Carter on Tuesday, June 23rd, 2009 at 6:17 pm
@jimmyjammy
No, the Unholy tweaks won’t be nice. The ability to be somewhat of an AoE damage dealer added to the fun factor of the Unholy tree. This sucks just a little.
No, it’s not a game breaker for me and no I won’t be ditching my dk. I like dks too much. I hear people hating on dks so damn much. You know what? Suck it! I love my DK.
By Forr on Tuesday, June 23rd, 2009 at 6:50 pm
This is the first patch note for 3.2. They always make the first changes a bit on the extreme side. I’m pretty sure they’ll ease up, as they’ve done before on many other things.
By Paladin ( the better version of DK) on Thursday, June 25th, 2009 at 11:15 am
stop QQing about DK nerfs, l0sers
By Doubtme on Friday, June 26th, 2009 at 8:45 am
Are they nerfs to DK tanking - yes.
Is this a bad thing? I’m about 50-50 on this. Honestly, DKs are ridiculously powerful tanks because their cooldowns are godly and on short timers. Since most major boss abilities are on 30 sec to 1 minute internal cds, being able to have a personal CD for every (or every 2nd) major ability makes certain fights a joke. On top of this blizzard has yet to fix the fact that healthpools are still the key to boss tanking. Yes, other stats are important, but in the end having more health than other tanks is a huge advantage. When my alt DK in tank gear and frost presence has 35K unbuffed and I don’t have anywhere near top level gear and raid buffed I can get to 43K or so (and remember this is not a top geared toon) and other tanks need ulduar gear to get to the same level, something needs to change. Druids had their stamina and health increases hit for the same reason.
The fact that we don’t have shields (thus less base armor and no block) needs to be accounted for - either increase our base mitigation or give us increased damage reduction effects (buff blade warding or add a similar passive ability). But on the whole DK tanks needed some changes.
The other thing to consider is that DKs still have the best magic tanking abilites. If they throw some bosses that require a magic tank (like the old fights that used warlock tanks) then DK tanks will still have a guaranteed tank role. They said the original concept for DKs was as caster tanks, so maybe they’ll be giving us some fights where this aspect of the class is actually going to shine.
Finally - this is the first iteration of patch notes, there’s a couple of months of testing likely to happen before this is implemented and in that time there will be changes, so why get worked up now? Let the balancing rounds happen and then cry that the world is ending, or better yet, accept that in general you get nerfed in 60% of patches, are unchanged in 30% and only get buffed in 10% (this is true for pretty much every class). Honestly, if people stopped whining about how powerful other classes seem to them and just learned to play their own class every class would probably have recieved far less nerfs over the last 5 years.
By Collapsar on Tuesday, June 30th, 2009 at 11:42 am
mmaaaannnn, another blow to us DK’s. Why don’t you just buff the other classes? o wait, your not that smart, forgot sorry ;p i thot that WoW was about defeating end game content and the lore? not about PvP. now you get a bunch of whiners b/c you have people that know how to play and you nerf them to hell. WTF stop nerfing us we are a god damn HERO CLASS not a god damn LOSER CLASS. blizz need to learn wtf a hero class is, and stop messing with us. how the hell are we supposed to kill arthas and sargeras and illidan and shit if we can even kill a god damn lvl 1 mob a t 6? at this rate, that’s what the dk will be, we cant even defeat a god damn lvl 70 mob at fucking 80…
By chelle on Wednesday, July 8th, 2009 at 6:13 pm
lmao ok the dks crying out there let me tell u something on my server and u can bitch and maon and complain all u want or flame me all u want when they dropped me by 5k armour in the last patch yes i was pissed but i got over it! also i still tank naxx as frost with one handers with the soft expertise cap and i DO IT RIGHT! GTFO it and learn ur class and learn to be flexable and to adjust! yes the nerfs suck ok! but learn to adjust stop bitching or roll another class!
By Doubleup on Thursday, July 16th, 2009 at 6:19 pm
Hey all - I know this may sound as another QQ. Probably it is, but this just to sum things up through all of these different comments, all very true, some not as true and some insightful. I play a tank myself, named Doubleup and he is mainly frostspecced.
First up is the Deathknight specs. At this moment, from what i can read, blizzard are swapping the tanking specs from the commonly used frost, to blood, a rarely used spec for tanking prefs, seeing as they are buffing dualwielding alot in frost, together with blood strike.
Also I do aggree that people think that deathknights should keep they’re throne of being a “Hero” class compared to others, but now, Blizzard has been bombarded by way too many complaints to handle from people who claim Deathknights to be “Overpowered”
I am now very concerned for the fate of Deathknight tanking, because from my POV I predict that they will slowly fall in numbers, seeing as they will be rejected by most groups, seeing as they now have low armor, long cooldowns, less avoidance, and probably also the lowest healthbar. To me this seems unfair and unwanted; I have never heard a QQ about deathknight tanks being OP.
Also i would like to scale the DPS meter for tanks in, fx. Naxx 10. Here a normal deathknight tank would be, without slack, at about 1.2-1.3k DPS. But if you read up, you will probably see a warrior tank above you, with about 1.5k dps. Just to take it into perspective that now deathknights don’t only miss out on alot of armor and a lot of health (Probably about 3.000 health will be subtracted from your current healthbar), and they already have problems with keeping up on the dps charts with other warrior tanks.
My suggestion would clearly be that blizzard gave the Deathknights the ability to equip shields, maybe give them a few abilities and let it be like that, to give them a decent chance of keeping up in the avoidance numbers (seeing that deathknights usually are known for they’re high dodge occurence and big healthbar), making up to paladin and warrior tank, who’s block value by the way also is getting doubled.
All in all deathknight tanks are getting about 40% WORSE than what they currently are.
If you read this, thanks for sparing me some of your time.
By Crazi on Sunday, July 19th, 2009 at 8:53 pm
So much for the promised HERO Class.
By Zag on Wednesday, July 22nd, 2009 at 7:40 pm
Well, in my point of view - yes DK’s are getting nerfed again and buffed at some BUT no worries; I strongly believe that this is happening as we are a new ‘Heroic’ class in the game.. they will not stop now.. we will get buffed again eventually. Rogues are getting nerfed all the time as I hear from some guildies and they are still the TOP melee class in the game. DKs are great considering a good specced char and a good rotation ofc as all classes. Everything depends on the player I think.
Peace ^^
By Skrothn on Wednesday, July 22nd, 2009 at 9:17 pm
Wow. Looking at the patch my dreams of being a DK tank looks slim. I have been wanted to become a tank for a lon gtime but I could never find good tank gear and when I did, I was never allowed to need on it.
DK’s have been nerfed like crazy. They are getting to the position of being pieces of shit with weapons. They will soon be useless if blizzard keeps going the direction they have.
I think DK’s need to get a little more respect than they have been getting. My friends which are extremely high dps DK’s are always getting booted from grops because of their class. Also I have come across a lot of healers that wouldn’t heal me because I am a DK.
What is sad is how many people there are that insult DK’s because they got a huge nerf. Your class has got nerfed a lot too over the years and I bet you wouldn’t have enjoyed someone calling you a retard or a whining brat because you are displeased with the class changes. DK’s have been treated horribly since their creation and have been constantly nerfed and have been constantly discriminated against because of their class. This goes to all you non DK’s out there: Have a little fun. This is a videogame and is meant for enjoyment. It is not a serious game so don’t treat it like it is. Live a little and stop getting all butt hurt because people are displeased with the patch. Getting mad at someone because they don’t like the changes is most likely hypocritical for I can easily say that you have at least once felt the need to show your displeasure of some patch changes by commenting or writing something to someone or maybe even telling your friends (I doubt you have any) why you are upset.
I hope by the patch after this, all other classes than the deathknight get anally raped by blizzard’s giant cock just to smite all of you dickheads that think it is appropriate to kick someone when they are down. If people are upset, let them be uset peacefully. There is no need to be a nazi shit head because your mother didn’t love you enough when you were a kid.
Well, good gaming and please feel free to enjoy existence.
Peace the fuck out bitches!
By Jonathan on Thursday, July 23rd, 2009 at 5:19 pm
i thought it was a hero class for a reason that reason being it was extremely over powered why would they make it like any other class at least let us use shields please.
By NERFSABITCH on Tuesday, August 4th, 2009 at 4:08 am
im a DK dps and i personally think frost sucked anyways.I mean the damage u could take was pretty insane but just go blood that way u can take damage and heal yourself.frost still doesnt deserve this nerf anyways its a HERO class, isnt it supposed to be a little bit better than the others?
By Chris on Tuesday, August 4th, 2009 at 12:13 pm
I have both a DK tank (blood spec) and a protadin. I found it alot easier to be a DK tank in ulduar with more CD’s than a Paladin. But both are able to tank every boss in Ulduar. You just has to be alittle more creative as a protadin. So now Dk’s will have to get more creative. They didn’t mess with anti-magic shield CD which played just as big a role on most of the bosses that Dk’s excelled at. So I don’t see that as a major nerf that IBF is 2 minutes now. But that may be because I had a protadin first and I’m used to it. The reduction in health although a nerf isn’t as bad as one thinks. Dk’s already had a ton more health than a protadin anyways. Armor reduction. ok so now the numbers will be about the same as other classes. Avoidance Avoidance Avoidance. That is truely what made Dk’s preferred in Ulduar. 3.2 actually brings a buff to Dk tanks. yes a reduction in dodge… but dodge is the bigger of the two stats for paladins, so they are getting a nerf too. Dk’s are the only class that gets .25 points of perry from str. and perry gets an increase.. do the math DK’s get an avoidance buff in 3.2 . For those that say “but paladins get block” block is useless it has only been good for threat gen. It appears that 3.2 will bring more of the same. gee I can now block 3K of damage instead of 1.5K 20% of the time, but I still get hit with 15K-20K hits more offten. do the math. DK’s will still take less damage. getting hit less = taking less damage.. yes if you get it, it will hit you harder. but overall I’m sure dk’s will take less damage head to head compaired to a protadin.
Now DK DPS, that just makes me sad. I love playing unholy, it was so fun. Removing unholy blight I think is a major hit to AOE not to mention just a cool ability. Nerfing scourage strike humm I’m assuming that the dps can be made up, just how yet I don’t know. I was hoping for a DW spec for unholy. but being DW is so deep in frost now, I don’t see that being a true option. I’m sure a month from now there will be new rotations that will make DK’s simialiar in dps numbers. people just don’t like change. Including me.
By Unbound on Tuesday, August 4th, 2009 at 12:20 pm
Well, as an unholy dps, I can say that im not too concerned about the changes… i mean 15% increased damage from diseases and the bleed from my DC that stacks 5 times? That 15% increased damage is gonna keep my AoE up to par, and the bleed is probably gonna make my single target dps even better; not to mention the blood strike 5% damage… its 1% more than desecration was.
Plus that RP hungry gargoyle finally got its stomach stapled.
By Barbara Gingrich on Wednesday, August 5th, 2009 at 8:45 am
This sucks i just got my dk where i need it and this happens again, Im ready to go else where. Now i need help in my new builds for my dk again .
By thewaffler on Monday, August 10th, 2009 at 1:35 pm
lol at druid tanks. they dont need to have decent gear to be op they can run naked and still are the best tanks in the game>so they dont need shields<nice faceroll bear there there your nerf will come..but on a pvp point of view why dont they pick on te regular topspots of BG i.e locks..shamys, pallys again since there even more facerole then druid …anti bubble for dk stuffed by CD pally bubble/rouge all pile on the dk!!! there more usless then protwars in pvp i have all these classes at lvl 80 im good at all..leave DK’s alone blizz all there trees, start on the 10k+crit hitters thats definatly wrong and waaay unballenced
By Bill on Tuesday, August 11th, 2009 at 7:10 pm
No one wanted a feral druid for pvp so I invested a large amount of time leveling a DK for this? No more money from me Blizznitches!