Project Lore: Five dudes. Four cameras. One World of Warcraft.

Posted by Valaar on Thursday, March 5th, 2009 - 88 Comments

Tags: Auction House, economy, enchanting, herbalism, inscription, World of Warcraft, wow

Comments

By Barishi on Thursday, March 5th, 2009 at 1:08 pm

I wish people would follow the rule of etiquette as a tailor my purple robes and gloves are selling for about half the values that they used to making it even more impossible to get my epic flight training especially when I’m trying to level enchanting at the same time which I have all but almost given up on and am thinking of switching it out for herbalism or something just so I can make some money

By Vangard on Thursday, March 5th, 2009 at 1:14 pm

Just wait. Or buy theirs and re-post at something closer to equilibrium price. There is no ‘etiquette’ on the AH - it’s just people wanting to buy low and sell high.

By Aguzar (Darkspear EU) on Thursday, March 5th, 2009 at 1:22 pm

etiquette ? are you living in the real world?

nothing says you HAVE to sell then and there, just horder up, and when prices are up, thats when you sell.

i went from haveing 20 dream shards, i refused to sell @7g each on my realm, by the time they shot up to 30g a go, i had over 200 of them….

Happy Man,

By Kyndranigar on Thursday, March 5th, 2009 at 1:26 pm

To be honest, undercutting the competition is a marketing strategy. If you can sell, some times at a loss, to ensure a sale of an unpopular or overstocked item, take a lesson from the corporate retail world and slash prices dramatically. You call it etiquette, however you’re artificially restricting yourself from making a sale.
I’m a tailor/enchanter, no one knows how bad it is to try to buy raw materials off the AH (1 of the highest quality dust is often posted for several gold alone), and worse is that the items you make (especially tailoring ones) have no resale value unless they’re the most epic of crafted goods.
Pre-WotLK but after Inscription was available, there was an absolute glut of herbs on the AH, people snatched up what they could and ground out their level as high as possible. They knew that the end level stuff would sell, as you and your Nobles Decks discovered, and summarily inflated AH prices (supply and demand) to the realms of the ridiculous prices. So, Mr. I sold things for 12k gold, you have no right to complain about having your auctions cut out from under you by someone “after a quick buck” after all, weren’t you? (As I doubt you’re crafting these decks for your fellow guildies/raid as a courtesy)

By Tehdead on Thursday, March 5th, 2009 at 1:35 pm

This to has caused many of the material professions like mining, skinning, and herbalism. To be much lower then actual value.

You noobs that think your getting head or beating your competition by under cutting are stupid.

Your actually hurting everyone in the process including your dumba** self.

This happens time and time again.

Ex. I put Copper Ore in for 8g(my sever avg.)
1.) you under cut me to 7g
2.) joe undercuts you to 6.75g
3.) noob got a bunch banked and puts 10 stacks
for 6g
Now the buyers expect to get Copper Ore for 6g a stack every time they go to the AH and if not they won’t buy.

You have just shot yourself in the foot. GJ

By Raknor on Thursday, March 5th, 2009 at 1:46 pm

This happened big time with blacksmithing too. Sold my first Spiked Titansteel Helm for 1800g now I’ll be lucky if i can give it away for at least 500g. Which barely covers the cost of mats, just not profittable.

By kiley on Thursday, March 5th, 2009 at 1:47 pm

I have to heartily disagree with kyndranigar. This isn’t something that’s just started happening with wotlk (although it’s definitely increased dramatically since it came out). This sort of thing happens all the time. Now does supply and demand come into play? of course, if there are 50ppl (for examples sake) on the server putting on over 100 stacks of farmed runecloth on AH is supply out weighing the demand? probably. But let’s be serious and talk crafted items we put on AH. I know the frustration spending hours farming mats so i can craft an epic item to sell on the AH. Or spending the gold to buy the mats on AH (which can be very expensive) and then find that after i’ve put all the gold or hours farming it’s undermined by some guy looking for a quick buck. I don’t know about everyone else but i refuse to lower my prices too low simply because i’d simply be losing gold. Cost it took to craft an item or the time spent farming mats is worth something right? Not to some apparently.
And because i help out my guildies by crafting them gear for hardly anything (sometimes for free) getting ridiculously underbid at the AH is sometimes just the last straw. Too many Auctions expiring and at that point i’m just losing money to the AH cut.

By Micah on Thursday, March 5th, 2009 at 1:49 pm

another great post from a kargath native yea i use to sell Eternal fire for about 50g a piece when wrath first came out now they go for around 30g because of what he describes here of undercutting while undercutting is a necessary thing to get you auctions sold people now do it to often so the economy crashes

By Mircea on Thursday, March 5th, 2009 at 1:57 pm

Sounds more like you don’t know how to run a “business”. You missed an opprotunity to buy up a cheap item and sell it for profit. This way you protect the market price and make a profit (all be it less of a profit than your own item). The only problem most players have is having enough gold to do this, but you said you had 10K.

By Sno on Thursday, March 5th, 2009 at 1:58 pm

you’re supposed buy the 200g one and resell it.

That’s call buy low sell high. =)

By Marex on Thursday, March 5th, 2009 at 2:00 pm

I enjoy the professions aspect of WoW a lot. Many of my alts have been started simply to fill holes in my profession stable. One of my most profitable alts is a JC/Enchanter. It’s amazing how much money can be made. I’ve fallen foul of undercutting just as much as anyone else. Like most people who play WoW and enjoy messing with the economy I won’t undercut most times. I often post at the same buyout as other people do (I may undercut their bid price a little).
There’s two things to remember about the economy that WoW supports.
1. Goods will sell for as much as people are willing to pay. This is the rule that governs high prices after expansions and new items.
2. Goods will sell for a low as the Seller values them.

While I’m not a fan of undercutting the truth is that people value goods differently. Some people may not understand the concept of Opportunity Cost. This may lead them to farm their own mats and sell their products at a lower rate. They still fell they are making money, and in fact they are. They may not be making as much as they could of if they sold just the mats, but that’s the difference between people who undercut and those who don’t.

I guess I don’t understand where this “AH Etiquette” idea came from. People will sell goods for what they think it is worth. That is their choice. I don’t agree with the prices they choose, but I deal with it.

By Arcrise on Thursday, March 5th, 2009 at 2:08 pm

@ Tehdead
What you just said is absolutely total bullshit.
The only point you’re proving is that you’re greedy and too lazy to grind for the mats. You should not forget that the only “cost” to gathered mats is time… aka its free stuff, so there is no “actual” value.

Your socalled ‘Noob’ has just been running around doing his/her quests and gathering mats while at it (thus working for what he wants) and manages to get some gold out of it.

If you want to make gold out of something, market smart, not greedy. Low selling might eventually make you more gold than keeping it high and having it in your mailbag everytime your auction runs out.
And buyers won’t expect things to be at a fixed cost at the AH, they’ll just be happy when its cheap, and bummed when its pricey, but they will always buy… they’ll still need the stuff, no matter if its high or low.
—————————————

As far as the “market-etiquette”, thats an absolute non-existant idea. Nobody plays nice when gold/money is involved, and complaining about it is not the best solution.

Either compete the prices or wait for “better” times. If something CAN be sold for 200G (and still make profit, however small that is), and you (want to) sell it for 500G+, that only means you are kinda pretty much way overpriced.

But hey… thats just what I think

Arcrise
BDF (EU)

By Shawn Coons on Thursday, March 5th, 2009 at 2:10 pm

“It’s called etiquette or common courtesy to respect other people’s auctions so we can all make money.”

The flaw in this statement is that you think “we can all make money” and that is only true where demand outweighs supply. And if that is the case then there is no need to lower your price on your Ace of Undeath to 200g, because after his cheap auction is bought there will still be more demand for your 500g auction.

But if there are more Aces of Undeath for auction then people willing to buy them, then the only way you have a reasonable expectation of selling your Ace of Undeath is for you to undercut your competition.

Prices ultimately fluctuate with supply and demand. If someone grossly undercuts your auction then that is a perfect time for you to buy it and repost it at the price you think it should be. If the demand is there then you’ll make a good profit at your price, if the demand is not there, and it doesn’t sell at the “proper price” then that bastard who undercut you was probably selling it at a more realistic price then you were.

You really need to have a better understanding of economics and the WoW economy before making a post like this.

By noobalicious on Thursday, March 5th, 2009 at 2:20 pm

“Seeing this travesty my competitor and I are now forced to lower our price to beat his rediculous price”

Wait until his sells, then relist at your normal price.

If you insist on undercutting the undercutters, all you do is feed the downward spiral.

By Tehdead on Thursday, March 5th, 2009 at 2:24 pm

@ Arcrise

WOW I’m sorry I don’t sit at home and collect welfare all day, just like when I get payed at work I get payed for my time.

My time isn’t worthless, maybe yours is. So when I go out of my way to get materials there not free there worth there value AND my time.

Sorry but in WoW and in real life nothing is gained without a cost.

By Valaar on Thursday, March 5th, 2009 at 2:24 pm

My only rebuttal is that while I agree that undercutting is a way of life with the AH for the most part players are respective. This has nothing to do buy low sell high. It has to do with farming from ahem, outside sources. Recently I’ve been whispered by a level 1 warrior asking me if I want to buy adder’s tongue cheaper then the auction house. This has happened 3 days in a row. So what’s happening is farmers are not just going for gold sales any more. They are gathering up materials selling them cheaper then AH or creating items that would normally sell higher and are taking a quick profit rather then wait it out for a proper sale.

Because of this most people are suffering. It is killing the economy. But when these people list the item continuously for the same low price it becomes difficult to sell. Why would I buy them low and sell high when they just keep going lower in price with their items to stock their gold reserves.

I can’t assume EVERY person that makes a massive price cut is a farmer but they could be following suit and thus contributing to the problem. I also saw mentioned that making drastic price cuts is the corporate way….keep in mind that corporate ways are also what’s killing the smaller businesses that can’t afford to do that. Doesn’t mean they didn’t work just as hard if not harder to make the same item.

By Krowtz on Thursday, March 5th, 2009 at 2:28 pm

If someone is undercutting me by 200g I will definitely buy them out and re-list both of them, usually putting one of mine at a discount over another. The best thing I can do for my business as a tailor/chanter is learn as many patterns/formulas as possible so that people come to me to get their supplies instead of anyone else. It’s called the long tail people!

By Shawn Coons on Thursday, March 5th, 2009 at 2:42 pm

“But when these people list the item continuously for the same low price it becomes difficult to sell. Why would I buy them low and sell high when they just keep going lower in price with their items to stock their gold reserves.”

It doesn’t seem difficult for the undercutters to sell their items if they are stocking their gold reserves. Why don’t you sell at that price and stock your gold reserves instead?

I’m sorry if you are not making the profit you think you “should” make. But the AH prices are based on supply and demand. Obviously in the markets you are looking at there is more supply than demand, so only the cheapest auctions sell.

By Nebyula on Thursday, March 5th, 2009 at 2:44 pm

When I put up stuff that sells well and regularly (prof mats or eternals usually) I actually take a gamble and put mine for 1-2g higher than the lowest price. Eventually the lowest priced items will get bought out, and my higher priced ones will become the new low price, and get bought.

Again a gamble. If hundreds of people decide to put the same item up cutting the prices repeatedly and mine get lost in a sea of pages, no luck for me. However, this has happened very, very few times.

By Valaar on Thursday, March 5th, 2009 at 2:46 pm

“It doesn’t seem difficult for the undercutters to sell their items if they are stocking their gold reserves. Why don’t you sell at that price and stock your gold reserves instead?”

That’s all fine and good when you have several people playing one account and farming and pumping out items like an assembly line. As for most players myself included who work hard to sell an item for the true value of the work and time invested we want what we deserve.

By Nebyula on Thursday, March 5th, 2009 at 2:50 pm

Also, there is also a limit to how low I will price something. If I know it’s worth more, but going for much, much less, I wont sell it, it goes into my bank, or I help a friend out.

Possibly not too smart, as I will now make NO money, instead of less than what I would like, but when I see something I feel is worth 100g, but is only selling for 40g, I die a little inside.

By Frozencore on Thursday, March 5th, 2009 at 2:51 pm

Dumb idea. im happy when someone sells me stuff for cheep. what pisses me off is when things you need lots of are sold in stacks of one. What the hell am i doing with 1 frostweave cloth?

By Tyme White on Thursday, March 5th, 2009 at 2:52 pm

In fairness there are addons that do this automatically (undercut). You put up something, I come after you with an addon that searches out prices for me and provides me with a price most likely for ME to sell my goods. If I have more than one of those items it will automatically create the additional auctions. Someone comes after me using the similar addon, same thing happens. It’s the way it is. Most times my stuff sells and if it doesn’t I understand I can’t always sell at the price I want.

By PatrickD on Thursday, March 5th, 2009 at 2:53 pm

I have never disagreed with a Project Lore article as much as this one.

Yes, I have sold some things for 500g and then come along later to find someone selling theirs for much less and mine doesn’t end up selling. SO WHAT? This is how economies work. Supply and demand.

Sometimes people underprice things for a quick sale. Let them. If it sells fast, then it’s off the listings and you can go back to selling at 500g. If it keeps selling low, then you should find some other big moneymaker.

Seriously, Valaar…could you QQ more?

By Nebyula on Thursday, March 5th, 2009 at 2:54 pm

Oh! And to the author of this blog: thank you ever so much for saying scribe, and not:

inscriptionist
inscriptor
inscriber

By Snaggly on Thursday, March 5th, 2009 at 3:02 pm

WTF, terrible article. There is no “etiquette” on the AH. Stopping being a whinny bitch, its people like you that keep that AH prices insanely high and for people who don’t have 80’s raking in the gold poor. You don’t like some one undercutting you buy them out and repost at your price. He makes money and you will ultimately make more money.

By Valaar on Thursday, March 5th, 2009 at 3:04 pm

@ PatrickD, I’m glad you disagreed. Not every topic is going to be something that everyone nods and agrees with on this site or any site. They are opinions. Please also read some of my rebuttals here. My main complaint is that when an item sells low and then repeatedly sells low is it because it’s the fair price or a gold farmer using another avenue to collect quick money so they can give it to someone who’s paid for it.

Apparently they’ve come to the conclusion that dumping things for a quick sale gets them money quick and we suck it up and give it to them so someone else can buy it. After a while the market on the AH becomes diluted very quickly and your lucky to make money on any item. This is not a case of QQ, it’s a case of respecting the nature of the AH and those trying selling by undercutting within reason.

But again, I’m not asking you to think like me but to just hear my thoughts and make your own opinion.

By elfennau on Thursday, March 5th, 2009 at 3:04 pm

“It’s called etiquette or common courtesy to respect other people’s auctions so we can all make money.”

Um, no. This is the cry of people who have no other way to make money, or are too lazy to try other ways.

You really need a better understanding of supply and demand in economics.

By Lawman30 on Thursday, March 5th, 2009 at 3:04 pm

There are soooooo many variables that affect this situation from server to server (how many people are leveling the professions/selling the particular items at the same time, server population in general, server demand for a particular item, etc.).

Some examples of how the above affect price are:

1. Lots of people selling any item at once wil flood the market and cause the price to drop (usually seen when people are leveling professions in some proximity to each other).

2. In WotLK, things (ore, eternals, crafted items, etc.) all sold for inflated prices initially because fewer people could craft those items as people who had toons with the same professions were busy leveling the toons as opposed to the professions. WotLK has been out for some time now and people have, by and large, had their toons catch up on their professions. If only one person can make the item, he commands the price. If many people can make the item, the market commads the price.

3. There may simply not be enough of your target population on your server. For example, there may be more cloth wearers than plate wearers on your server. If you are attempting to sell crafted plate armor of the epic variety, there may simply be fewer level 80s that can actually wear what you’re selling. Once they get it then the need for it drops of and with it, the price.

4. Some servers have populations that simply won’t pay what an item is “worth.” For example we look to the Tranquil Mechanical Yeti. This fine fellow is a non-combat pet that darn near any engineer can make. On my server I can sell one for between 145-185 gold depending on the time of the week (weekends bring more demand with the higher populations of players on at a time). On other servers people don’t bother making them because they can’t even to get them to sell for what they have to invest in the mats to make the thing. Why the difference? It is the exact same item which functions in game the exact same way for any player regardless of faction or class. Some servers simply have populations that would sooner die than pay gold for a non-combat pet.

But regardless of any circumstance….IT IS NEVER ANOTHER PLAYER’S JOB TO MAKE YOU MONEY! You don’t like the price someone sells something for then buy it and sell it for what you think its worth. That’s called “cornering the market.” Good luck with that. The server economies are to vast to make that realistic for all items. High end ones maybe (To go back to the Yeti, I have been know to buy a Yeti that I think is underpriced so that I can sell mine for MY price and then resell the one I bought for MY price). Do you net as much gold doing that as you do when you make and sell the item. No. But you put in a hell of a lot less time and effort. If I can net 25 gold just from buying and re-listing an item then good for me.

There is no such thing as “etiquette” in a free market. Everyone is trying to make money. No one sets the limits on what something can and cannot be sold for. The all time applicable rule for questions regarding what something is worth is SOMETHING IS WORTH WHAT SOMEONE IS WILLING TO PAY FOR IT. IF that is less than what you’re charging..so be it.

By angesh on Thursday, March 5th, 2009 at 3:05 pm

K heres my view of the this “Etiquette”.
Have i ever done any proffesions…No
Do i craft items………No
Am i an impulsive gold spender…..yes
And to be an impulsive spender u need gold

K u said yourslef “Everyone has the right to make gold”<— paraphrasing of course
So should the guy that lists if for 200g not sell it because you listed yours first? Undercutting your competition is not rude, its a strategy. That guy could have earned 300 more gold…but he didnt and hes happy with his price. You have no more of a right to make gold then he does..and he cant do anythign you cant do.

To the peope that say “you should have bought low and sold high” thats true but is it really in context to the situation? Its true that by undercutting you it takes gold away from you, but again theres nothing he can do that you cant. If you disagree say that…but is the language neccesary:)

By Shawn Coons on Thursday, March 5th, 2009 at 3:11 pm

“As for most players myself included who work hard to sell an item for the true value of the work and time invested we want what we deserve.”

So what formula determines the “true value?”

In your post you mentioned that the price of Nobles cards were at one time 2500g and now they have come down. It would seem to me that you were getting more than your so-called “true value” at that point.

You still seem to be ignoring that prices are set by supply and demand. You are in markets where there is more supply than demand and your undercutting competitor is willing to take less profit then you.

And your reference to gold-farmers is irrelevant. They want to make profits as much (if not more) than your average wow-player. They have a real life incentive to make money as efficiently as possible, and so they are not going to artificially deflate any price unless they can make more money by doing so.

In fact, I may be one of those people you think are gold-farmers. For several months I would buy 10-20 stacks of Saronite Ore a day. Prospect them, enchant some of the good gems, and then sell all the gems on the AH. I made sure that each and every one of my auctions was the cheapest, because I could just “pump out” more gems the next day.

Am I farmer? No. But I realized that I could sell stacks of gems a day at a low price, or I could keep my prices where everyone else’s were and sell only a few stacks each week. Yes, I was making less gold per sale, but I was selling so many that it made me more money overall.

The “true worth” of any item is what people are willing to pay for it. Period.

By Zbubs on Thursday, March 5th, 2009 at 3:14 pm

10,000 gold is plenty to hav to hav fun in the game

i’m kinda tired about big auction ppl whining ’bout there lowered income

before you whine think about the casual players just struggling to get the 1000g together to buy their northrend flying (much less their epic flying)

mining (at least on my server) pays shit now (saronite selling at 30g a stack)

to some ppl that doesn’t sound bad but think about if you are running around trying to mine w/o flying

watev maybe im whining myself but still i find it hard to get the gold for just your ‘necessities’

By Tyme White on Thursday, March 5th, 2009 at 3:15 pm

@Valaar - When you buy something in AH do you buy an item at the cheapest cost you can or at a higher price? If you purchase the least expensive item when there are higher priced items available you are encouraging the exact behavior you’re criticizing? When you put something up on AH and you’re not the first one posting the item, are you actually saying you don’t price it lower?

And like I said earlier, a lot of people use addons so your argument that people are purposely undercutting isn’t fair. The software determines the price without the player even LOOKING at the other items posted.

By HerofTime on Thursday, March 5th, 2009 at 3:17 pm

On the dalaran server, saronite ore stacks are down to 15g for 20. Quite sad.

By Wilx on Thursday, March 5th, 2009 at 3:17 pm

I have made more than most on the AH. I currently have over 100,000g. I have over 100 items on the AH most of the time.

I will beat the lowest price by 1 silver unless that would take me below what I feel is a reasonable margin. If it is too low I just don’t list that item that day. Either they are selling it too low and it is a temporary dip that will come back up, or I will eventually need to adjust my own idea for the price of that item.

Not everyone listing things on the AH is looking to maximize their profit. Some just want to sell it as quickly as possible, because the need the gold right away for something else. If they list it low enough, I will even oblige them and buy it all to sell later.

Personally I don’t think etiquette has anything to do with it. Thinking like that will make your AH pricing decisions less profitable.

Wilx
(yes Wilx from the Kara episode)

By Zbubs on Thursday, March 5th, 2009 at 3:20 pm

maybe some of these people with exorbitant amounts of gold shud just pik a random person and give them some money.

(Zeminonu on Rivendare wud b grateful)
lol jk jk

but seriously maybe wow shud hav a lottery or sumthing

By Arcrise on Thursday, March 5th, 2009 at 3:29 pm

@ Tehdead

I didn’t know putting a post up here would make me lose my job all of a sudden. I wouldn’t have said anything if I knew that…

Now if getting, let say, copper is too hard for ya, and taking too much time, focus on another item, more in the region you’re mostly at, or closer to your levels ability… just dont whine that the ‘noob’ beat you to the mats in the area he’s busy in, and managed to sell them for all the golds he/she needs at that time instead.

And I understand you have to work to live (and hope its not the other way around), but it seems to me WoW is more like work to you aswell.
————————————————–

High lvl people more than often forget they were newbies once too, and were happy with getting their first gold pieces.
The biggest problem in this game is that stuff can be priced absurdly high, including vendor items and trainables.
Almost on every forum or blog there are complaints about how (insanely) expensive things are, most recently with the announcement of Dual Spec and its 1k gold cost.
Yet when it comes to their own income (as what this appearantly is about), high prices suddenly are all good.

Of course, it is a LOT of gold one needs in WoW, getting expert and artisan riding, and CWF and who knows what else more, but it still is managable. There are more than enough ways to get gold in this game, so why not switch ‘tactics’ every now and than?

Maybe people are just getting more and more “greedy” further along the game and start selling stuff on AH for just way too much gold.
Try to think the other way around for a change, and think about what fucks up the economy more…
People putting items on AH for insane amounts of gold, or the people that try to sell stuff for reasonable prices.
What would you want IRL??? (and think as both buyer and seller on this)

Maybe I’m all wrong, most likely because I’m not enough of a hard-core player… but at least I’m still having fun playing WoW

By Mark Tyler on Thursday, March 5th, 2009 at 3:34 pm

I just sold 4x Librarian’s Paper Cutter for 5g each. Sold in 3 seconds after posting. Suck it.

By Sardit on Thursday, March 5th, 2009 at 3:44 pm

I’ve seen on loads of places that alchemy / herbalism is a good moneymaker, On my server it isn’t. prices of potions are so low you have to farm the herbs to make a profit.
Flasks are selling ridiculousely low, mana pots and health pots are the only stable prices, unfortunately both are selling that low, that its hard to get the herbs from the ah and still make a profit.

The reason for this is simple. Putting up any item that others can sell aswell will make them undercut, and not by a few silvers, but by 1 gold immediately. And when prices are only 3 or 4 gold per pot. It only takes two idiots and the market is fucked.

Not just with herbs though, On every item you try to sell people will undercut you with insane amounts. Just take crafteds, some epic items are in the ah for days on end at 1k, a reasonable price Then someone spams trade and sells the same cloack for 300g barely covering the mats. And not just one, but 5 or six at the same time.

They don’t even realise they’re screwing up the market. I had a long talk with someone constantly selling flasks at half price, he simply said he was making 20g a flask because he grinded the herbs. Didn’t realise that they sell for up to 60g aswell and he’s screwing the average price. People refuse to pay that for them now. They even bitch in trade if you ask 30g for them. Same flask that sold for 60g without trouble a month ago.

By Deidare on Thursday, March 5th, 2009 at 3:45 pm

theres about 500 comments right now but ill post anyway (stupied comment on my part). Best proffesion to make is none other than, black smithing. You will always make cash. Whether its a players preist alt wanting to buy a titansteel gaurdian. Or a DK duel weildin Bonecrushers, players need there first epic wepon for thouse heriocs. And were do they go to get a fast and decent epic. A black smith, well if you need a one handed meele mace, a caster mace, a two handed mace, or a dagger youll come to me (haha). Anyway i generally make 3kg a week. yeah a WEEK. so im already about to get my baby mammoth with all this cash. So if your a plate weared dont think twice about black smithing.

By Arcrise on Thursday, March 5th, 2009 at 3:53 pm

How could you even think about calling 1k gold for an item a reasonable price, if 300G still covers the mats. I could understand going for about 500G for that item then, but 1k gold is far from reasonable, its greedy.

By Lawman30 on Thursday, March 5th, 2009 at 3:55 pm

The other thing to consider in terms of what cripples AH price is that far more people are simply collecting mats for crafted items and then seeking to tip makers. Part of the reason your crafted items may not sell well is that people buy the mats AND pay the tip for less than what you charge. In that case its not fellow sellers that are doing you wrong, its fellow blacksmiths/alchemists/tailors, etc.

By Lawman30 on Thursday, March 5th, 2009 at 3:59 pm

@Arcrise

Nothing you charge is being “greedy” if someone is willing to pay it. Simple truth. No one forces anyone to spend their gold. Something cost more than you’re willing to pay? DON’T BUY IT! When I lay down gold for something its cos I want it. NOW. I don’t want to wait for cheaper. I have NEVER felt as though I’ve been ripped off at the AH cos I choose to pay for the items i buy.

By Sardit on Thursday, March 5th, 2009 at 3:59 pm

As for buy low sell high, There are tons of farmers there selling their stuff to low. I’ve blown 1000 of golds to keep prices at a reasonable level, buy buying them out and selling them higher. But at some point you just find yourself with no bank space left and still tons of idiots selling stuff to low. Gotta cut your losses and just accept the price then.

To many players that are only comming to end game regions now. And they make their epic mounts faster then yourself simply because they keep selling farmables to low forcing others to take them out and resell at the proper prices, waiting for their return while the low sellers get their money within hours after posting.

Undercutting isn’t a problem if you keep something at a similar price level, but some are simply skipping 50% of the price when undercutting. And in turn changing the buyers perspective they see stuff being sold at that price, and in their head that is the right price all of a sudden. And in turn they are postponing their buying till some other idiot comes along selling it to low again.

By Burcemage on Thursday, March 5th, 2009 at 4:12 pm

Im a Enchanter/Tailor myself.
When i go too the AH too buy Greens from level 74-80 there asking buyout Prices for 25G pretty mutch all of them. If i DE them i might get 3 Infinity Dust(7G Each) out of them, and lucky if i get a Greater Cosmic Essence(22G). Myself i dont see only time i buy something is if it’s Lower then 10Gold only way i can actualy make a profit or even use for myself too level. But in Cloth Ebon Weave kinda went down a bit but that was expected in time realy there more running around there. With patch 3.1 this should go back up because of the Epic Belt you can make now that require 10Ebonweave and 10MoonCloth i think. But it Seem too me too sell on the AH wait tell the Weekend usaly you have all the ppl that work During the week that doesnt have time too play or Grind come on the weekend and just buy from the AH. Now for under cutting ppl in the AH i dont see a problem there realy, if you going too make a profit of the Item your selling it’s all fair and game realy. If you realy want too make money just go farm the stuff you need too make it and that 100% profit, that why they can undercut you buy soo mutch.
If you intead too buy your matts off the AH and try too make a profit good luck with that because that aint gona happen. I make pretty well on gold and playing the AH myself buy Low and Selling High. I saw myself seeing the Market on a certay Matt being very Low and just buy out everything and putting my own price there and keep checking too make sure nobodie beat my price and keep buying it’s taking a risk but it paid off for me.

Those are just my thaught on this.

By N. on Thursday, March 5th, 2009 at 4:36 pm

Welcome to markets and basic economics. Seriously, read up on how it works. Having everyone “sell high to make good gold” is a sure recipe for no one having the money to buy anything, and no one being able to sell anything they have. Market-gridlock.

Reading some of these comments are hilarious as well: the number of the economically ignorant is astounding.

Always remember two basic principles: (1) “The value of an item is the amount someone is willing to buy it for, *not* what the seller wants to sell it for.” (2) “As a seller, don’t sell it if you don’t like what’s being offered.”

In a free market, all economic transactions are win-win by definition. Buyers have to raise their buy amount if no sellers are happy at the low amounts. If a seller or 30 sellers are happy with a low amount and sell, *that* is the worth of the stuff for the transaction.

By Reeper on Thursday, March 5th, 2009 at 4:49 pm

You cant be serious with this BS etiquette line you are pitching. 1st off, I’am a scribe and herbalist and i havde been making thousands by undercutting each and every card I see. I sold a nobles deck for 8k, thats right 8k.

2nd. Your either very lazy or very stupid if you constantly by your herbs from the ah. i can see if you need that last pigment or so to get the ink but if your buying constantly, your severley cutting into yourown profit. PICK THEM YOURSELF!!! I will undercut everyone because I pick them so its all profit minus my time which is suffice to say, no big deal. While I herb, I chat, gank, get some kills in etc..so no big.

3rd. Iam out for uno numero, the big cheese, the one and only, ME!!! I raid with great etiquette, I have tons of friends and my guild seems to enjoy my company and I take care of my friends and guild mates by giving for free or selling them cards cheap but as far as the masses go, your kidding right…. Unless you want to buy me those sweet titanium weps, purple rings, and very expensive mounts then dont say its bad etiquette to undercut. Welcome to buisness. I have ran a buisness for 13+yrs and granted some competition can be good, to much is devastating. When my competition isnt doing well, Im happy because it means MY mortgage will keep getting paid, my kids will keep getting fed, etc…. Is the “other guy” gonna pay my bills, feed my kids, my dog, my gas etc… HELL NO. NOR SHOULD THEY. Its a dog eat dog world. This isnt friggin sunday school. Life and WOW mimic eachother alot more then people would like to admit. Welcome to the real world. Deal with it. Undercut me and suck it up until the market jumps again and it will, RL and WOW. But FFS, stop the QQing.

4th. Woodle, if your listening, all I can say is lol.

Reeper Z:)

By Kyndranigar on Thursday, March 5th, 2009 at 5:21 pm

Remember when Primal Nethers in tBC where BoP? How much were your crafters charging to make items including them? ‘Your mats + 100g Nether fee’ ruled the Trade channel. 95g 90g, 85g, etc. prices fluctuated among those numbers from crafters. Then the Nethers became BoE. First few on the AH? 120g. 110g. In two weeks? 60g. In two months? 30g. Point I’m making seems to be summed up by some previous posters. People demand the cheaper price for things and when individuals at an AH are undercut, and often (so a majority of AH searches find that lower price with increased frequency) the server cost of the item just became standardized by that value. Either adapt or never sell at your (now) inflated price.
Suck it up. I really have no respect for anyone who has over 10k gold on their toon and complains about ‘losing money’ you remind me of real world Corporate CEOs who sit in their plush chairs at expensive offices at the had of giant companies who bitch at another five million in losses while paying off lobbyists and buying up politicians.

By CappyG on Thursday, March 5th, 2009 at 5:37 pm

Wow! Lots of people need to read BRK’s post today.

1. If you don’t make enough gold by selling the crafted stuff you make, do something else.

2. WOW has no cost of living, so it’s only a question of what your time is worth.

3. Given the state of etiquette in the rest of WOW no one should be surprised by the lack of etiquette surrounding the AH.

By Illithian on Thursday, March 5th, 2009 at 5:52 pm

Most of the AH prices are a matter of how long the item has existed and how old the server is.

My server is ancient. A stack of copper ore goes for about 80s, netherweave goes for about 3g /stack.

You are incredibly lucky to have prisms decks still selling even NEAR that high. On my server, a deck is 1kg at the most.

By Alayea on Thursday, March 5th, 2009 at 6:18 pm

I almost never have anything on the AH because I either stock stuff up for my alts or deposit in the guild bank for others to use. When I do put something in the AH, I factor in four things:

1.) Whether supply is outstripping demand. (If so, I don’t offer it.)
2.) What are others’ prices for the item in question.
3.) How much I think it’s worth.
4.) Can it be considered reasonable.

I’ve always priced on the low side because I haven’t forgotten how I used to prize even having 1g. Not everyone has the benefit of a money-maker or siblings to take advantage of (no, I don’t mean that in the bad way).

By Sean on Thursday, March 5th, 2009 at 6:43 pm

I blame Auctioneer.

Everyone that uses the Auction House must have it (ok, broad generalisation, but a lot do).

And that “Undercut - 10%” button must be ticked for many people.

Eventually something selling at 10,000g could go down to 1g with 10% being taken off constantly. o_O though it’d be really slow and I’m exaggerating my statement, you can get what I mean. Everyone is undercutting the undercutters and it’s just slowly building up.

By Dan on Friday, March 6th, 2009 at 1:54 am

Same thing happens to all proffesions man. When Lich King hit I was making 120g+ on each frostweave bag, now I am lucky to pull in 70g on my server. My profession has lost it’s 1 moneymaker in my opinion.

People keep undercutting and when the economy hits an all time low everyone starts complaining…….I’m pretty sure I’ve heard something about this irl, but I just can’t put my finger on it. hmmmmmmmmm

Mining and JC are the only professions that will always have business, and enchanting. People replace gear and they NEED to have it gemmed and enchanted or else it’s like they are missing half their gear.

By Baro on Friday, March 6th, 2009 at 3:05 am

I wish theese whiny posts on this otherwise very good blog would stop. This is one of the cases where less would have been more. Quick pulling topics out of your “ears” and asking people to debate them just so you have something on the site every day. It ruined a lot of blogs already.

What you describe here is simply the economy. The item obviously isn’et worth your 500g, it can be made and sold cheaper.
If not, buy the cheaper up and wait it out for a while. Get auctioneer, check wowecon, use situations like this to your advantage. Noone has a license to mint money in this game. Earning money through professions and trading is as much a challenging aspect of the game as combat is.

By Hank on Friday, March 6th, 2009 at 4:29 am

less QQ, more ABC

Always

Be

Closing

By James on Friday, March 6th, 2009 at 6:59 am

It’s called a free market. And if you were smart you would buy the dirt cheap stuff undercutting you and relist it.

By Drstealth on Friday, March 6th, 2009 at 7:51 am

This is really a rather unique post for PL. When I first read it I was like “well, duh, that is just how it works” and I will admit my first reaction was the the OP was just QQing about their individual situation.
The AH really is a nice way to see supply/demand, and sometimes monopolization, at work.

If the goal of the blog is to generate discussion, then you certainly win there. =)

Here is my take on this. To oversimplify, I would divide the WoW economy into three categories/type of users:

1) There are people who sell items on the AH but rarely buy things. If they needs mats for something, they farm them themselves. These are players who would be “hurt” the most in the original bloggers world. However, I also think this in reality is a very small percentage of the population.

2) There are people who buy items from the AH but rarely sell things. Basically these folks are always broke. =) These players would actually benefit the most, but again I think this is a very small percentage of the population.

3) Finally there are people who do a decent mix of both. They have toons and alts that support each other. They occasionally sell items they don’t need to make some gold. Typically this gold is used to then buy materials or items that they need. I think this is the vast majority of players and I think the scenario described by the original blogger is really a wash for this type of character.
Does the stuff they sell go for less gold? In general, yes.
Does the stuff they buy get cheaper? In general, yes.

TLDR version:
When new things come out, people with overpay for them. As time goes by, items in the AH get less expensive and this is a wash/breakeven event for 95% of players.

By dagimp007 on Friday, March 6th, 2009 at 7:58 am

Inscribers should not complain… i am enchanter..
-i roll on mats in dungeons….
-i do enchants on a full set of gear with no tips
and the only thing that is for me is a few average ring enchants…

By Stormovik on Friday, March 6th, 2009 at 7:59 am

So you know your Noble’s deck will sell for 500 Gold, and someone puts one on the aH for 200 Gold. Simple soloution, buy the one for 200 Gold and re-sell it at a higher price. It’s only one, it’s not like they put 20+ Noble’s Decks on for 200 Gold.

I’m also somewhat confused why you felt th eneed to undercut the guy who initially undercut you by 5 Gold. Is the demand so low, that only one Noble’s Deck will sell during the next 2 days? If so, sell something else, get out of the Noble’s Deck market. I get undercut by one or two items, I really don’t care, it will take a little longer to sell and get my Gold, that’s all. Providing I’ve priced correctly. If someone floods the market with more than can possibly sell before the Auctions run out of time, that’s a different matter. But do I de-list? No. I make 2 more and undercut the market hogger, replacing the one that sells with a new one….. Well actually only if I’m an evil mood.

Personally I gave up selling finished items ages a go, I stick with mats as they have a greater demand. If someone undercuts, I can buy them out and relist later.

As annoying as it is, there are no rules against undercutting, vastly undercutting or plain stupidity. Stupidity is selling something either, for an amount that after the AH cut gives you less than if you’d vendored it. Or, just plain selling it for less than the what you would get by just vendoring it anyway. And yes, I have seen both happen, in the case of the latter, I thank those responsible, it may not have been a big profit, but it felt good vendoring all of it.

By Goblins FTW on Friday, March 6th, 2009 at 8:05 am

Wow. To anyone who follows the advice in this post, thank you. Thank you very much.

You’re just one of the ways that help me make tons of gold.

By sham on Friday, March 6th, 2009 at 8:52 am

another aspect of the undsercutting and some may disagree but with the goldsellers undercutting people makes it hard for anyone to make money therefore they get to sell their gold more often.

By Cotytto on Friday, March 6th, 2009 at 10:33 am

I undercut.I usually sell something for its average market price.I don’t gouge, if you have a guilde who can make it for you,more power to you.I’m the one who leveled my profession,not you.You want what I can make?Pay me a fair price.That’s all I ask.

And nothing irritates me more than the people who deliberately undersell you repeatedly at a loss just to try to drive you away from the AH.

If someone lists something that is a good seller for a ridiculously low amount (and I mean guys who sell an entire stack of something for copper instead of gold) I just buy it all myself and re-list it at my normal price which is always the lowest and fairest I can make it.

By pgp2002 on Friday, March 6th, 2009 at 10:47 am

Great post! This one seems to have sparked a great response since most of us have fell victim to the inevitable undercut. I found a way to keep my mind right and feelings safe from the harm that the undercutters inflict. I simply go to the AH go straight to the create auction tab, drop my stuff in and create auctions with out a buy out and with out specifying a starting bid. Now this isn’t exactly the best way to make boo-koo bucks, but I have been very successful with this methhod. I sell almost everything I put in the AH and it gives the people bidding on my auctions (my theory) a little excitment in watching the item they’re bidding on to the end, and possibly even getting something for a steal. Periodically, I will go back and check the AH for the items Ive sold and often times the items I’m selling end up going for slightly more than other auctions for the same item. Auctions are a competition, and if people bidding are competitive enough, they’ll pay anything to win that auction. I think buyouts are the downfall to the whole auction process. Do I think the buy out option should be removed? The answer is no, but I do think limiting it to certain “types” of items should be looked at by Blizzard.

By Troter on Friday, March 6th, 2009 at 11:04 am

i trade stuff i need for stuff i have, do daylies , fish my own buff food grind if i want a item..becouse AH is too exspencive becouse of folks like the auther. 25k for a nobelsdeck u should be ashamed 50g for a gliph shiesh.. you will get no simpathy from me n i hope every one undercuts your prices. seriously if makking gold is the main reason too play wow…get another hobby. wow can be done for manny reasons, the challenge of killing bosses alone/ in groups, ya have a feer of little people n so you play BG’s to kill gnomes, u like DnD but ya dont have frends so you rp online what ever your motive is bud i shure hope it isnt too be the richest player. gold makes your wow life easyer bud it doesnt say how good of a player ya are…rather be grouping with a poor tank who can hold aggro than a rich one who cant

By Drstealth on Friday, March 6th, 2009 at 11:36 am

=)

By skeebop on Friday, March 6th, 2009 at 12:45 pm

Wait. What?

Etiquette?
…
Seriously?

That’s capitalism…

By Mercel on Friday, March 6th, 2009 at 1:31 pm

Just sell your things during the middle of the week, after a patch day. Don’t sell some materials during the weekends (or friday night for that matter,) because the undercutting will be enormous (especially with the gold farming company players making leather auctions and such.)

By Hoss on Friday, March 6th, 2009 at 1:46 pm

I don’t think I have seen so many comments on a PL Post before. I hav to 100% disagree with the meat of this post.

the wow AH is a free market, if someone grossly under prices you you have the choice to buy their auction out and put it up again, even if you purchased at 200G and put i back up for 300G that would quickly netted you 100G for doing nothing more then “playing the market”

I hate when people complain that the market is soft.. it’s a market for a reason, if supply is too high then wait a while for it to come back down.

By Dominion on Friday, March 6th, 2009 at 2:04 pm

When I see idiots dropping items for a quick buck. I buy it at the low price and then repost it at the normal market price. It’s to the point where I will go back to having both gathering professions. The market is getting cut throat and i’m getting cut up

By Martin Bray on Friday, March 6th, 2009 at 2:13 pm

Greetings,
I was a bit disappointed by this rant. It did not offer any suggestions or advise on how to navigate the AH. The game is the game we all now it and what I have observed is that if pricing of certain items get to high people will start farming that resource and the price will fall, inversely if the pricing gets to cheap (I love buying stacks of Heavy Frostweave Bandages for 3G on AH and selling to vendor for 5G) people will respec to a different profession and the pricing will adjust.
Here are my tips, 1. Specialize in one market, you will start to recognize price trends and opportunities. 2. If you want to undercut the you can get your product to display at the top of the heap by having the same BIN price but a cheaper bid price. 3. Sell in stacks 4. When buying, be patient, bid. My biggest tip, 5. Roll an AH character, run them to Exodar (the mail box is right outside the AH), have your main mail everything that is to be auctioned to this character.

Happy Capitalism, remember the market is the market, don’t complain use it to your advantage.

By Eldrig on Friday, March 6th, 2009 at 2:59 pm

With what? 9million(?) people playing this game and people screwing with the economy on each and every server, I wonder why there is a financial crisis in the world…

Its a simple case of people being able to act like apes due to the fact that they cant get caught. Good old EQ where if you acted like a tool you would get the heat for it.

By Divinojuan on Friday, March 6th, 2009 at 3:03 pm

In reading this post I have to start off in saying that I feel for you. I can understand how frustrating it must be to have such a great potential and source of income and then to see it slashed, make it feel like the WoW economy is beginning to mimic our very own real life economy.

As far as my own professions, I am a max enchanter and miner. I can’t say that I make a TON of gold everyday, but in being maxed out for a while now, I have noticed that the price of mats for enchanting have stayed fairly close to their original prices. Tips for doing enchants (which I have never asked for) are still very nice (5-30g depending on the chant and situation), and the price for stacks of ore has actually gone up a little bit.

Here’s hoping things smooth out for you!

By Angel on Friday, March 6th, 2009 at 9:26 pm

There’s no etiquette, there never has been, this is a buyers market. The same thing happened when jewelcrafting came out. The prices for inscription were criminal and artificial and down right unreasonable. Anyone that paid those prices is insane.

By Skulane on Saturday, March 7th, 2009 at 1:16 am

TL;DR Version
Suply and demand basic economics
Buy low sell high

[WARNING Full of information that might hurt your head if you never passed High School Economics. Proceed with caution!!!]

Supply and demand, its basic economics.
If the demand for an item is high but the supply is low you are able to sell at much higher prices. However when Supply meats demand and then goes beyond it (peeps flooding the market with saved items for example). There is more competition and thus a lower price is set.
This is easily seen with Titansteel bars. Since it is on a 20 hour cd to make em. Most of the time they are in higher demand than supply can keep up with. How ever if some one has been saving up for and then dumps allot in to the system it throws the AH off whack. . This in turn lets those with allot of gold buy the lower priced items (giving the seller his foolproof sale) The buyer then sells said Bar for a higher price making less money than if he had farmed it him self but saving time and effort.

Heres the rule if you wanna make gold. Buy low Sell high. Watch the AH over the course of a week (not constantly just once or twice during your game play.)Remember the highest and lowest amounts you see of the item your looking to sell. Buy when they are on the lower side sell when they increase in value. DO NOT Dump all your items you have when its high. Since some ones gonna undercut you (more than likely ) you don’t want to put up 10 stacks of something and only end up selling 4 of em.Sell them little by little and you save your self cash. If none sell thems the breaks.. Always remember that the in game economy is a circle.Step 1: Some one mines the material and sells it. Step 2: Some one buys it and sells it for higher. (step 2 may be repeated several times thus that one stack of ore has “made” Hundreds of gold over the course of several people.) Ex:you mine and sell Saronite stack for 30g (for the sake of argument)
Some one buys it and sells it for 40. Then the next person sells it for 50/60 etc. This stack doubled in value from its base price. The original seller (Supplier) made the most profit 30 for some time and effort. The others made 1/3 that for no work.) Step 3: Some one buys the stack with the intention of using it for crafting and thus the ore leaves the system[Demander](note this can happen in step 2 as well). If suppliers stop supplying enough the price inflates. If demander’s don’t need the ore at the moment the price deflates.
The market will always be in flux. Ride the wave correctly and you come out on top.
If you read this whole thing
…
No … no
there isnt any one that could make it thru that snore fest.
/nods

By Cuppincakes on Saturday, March 7th, 2009 at 2:07 am

Whoa lots of comments. In my limited experience and knowledge of loot, which I expect is about average, a whole lot of people just won’t know or can’t remember what stuff sells for.

I made much of my gold selling dragonhawks and other Horde in Horde, not neutral, AHs right after wotlk hit. I sold quite a few for 70 g a pop, while only paying 50 silver. People were either too impatient to go get them themselves, or ignorant of where they came from in the first place. Either was fine with me. Obviously, I couldn’t go spam the AH with as many as my bags could hold, and soon other people caught on and started selling too.

In the end, an item is only worth what people are willing to pay for it.

The only time AH prices have ever bothered me is when people put buyout prices lower than what they’d get from vendoring the item. That’s either ignorance or stupidity. But, it’s still my choice to either put it up for the regular going price, hold it until those auctions clears, or vendor the stuff myself and forget about it.

Unnecessary stress is unnecessary.

By Cuppincakes on Saturday, March 7th, 2009 at 2:11 am

Oh yes, and buying the cheaper stuff and reselling is an obvious choice, but that’s only if you have enough gold to actually buy the others out in the first place. I’m too spend happy for that to usually be the case, unless it’s relatively cheap stuff.

By Sprockit on Saturday, March 7th, 2009 at 7:02 am

If someone is posting the same item as you at a significantly lower price, why not buy it and re-post it at your price? I do it all the time.

By Leonal on Saturday, March 7th, 2009 at 7:36 am

Valaar has been getting a lot of flack that this is a buy-low sell-high situation, that he should just buy up the lower priced item, that the new price is the price that the market will bear, etc.

Let me give you another example from my server. I am also a scribe. Death Knight glyphs sell for 40g, consistently and repeatedly. A new scribe entered the market with a mindset that the highest anyone should ever pay for a glyph is 20g. At first, I would just buy his glyphs and repost them, but quickly found that he does this almost full time and has an apparent infinite supply of mats. On the infrequent days that he is sick or otherwise occupied, prices go back up to 40g per glyph and sell at the same frequency as any other day. On the days that he’s on, he has regulated the price to 20g.

So all of the folks who have been posting that the WOW economy is simple supply and demand should take note. There is more at work here, just as there is in a real world market. There are times when individuals make decisions based on their own personal belief system that run counter to their own best interest.

By Hatell on Saturday, March 7th, 2009 at 5:56 pm

One thing you should realize is that, when an expansion hits, there will be a huge amount of gold to be made off of it. This can last for up to two months and after that, things start to become readily available (ie: there’s more out there.) There’s more players out there getting higher professions and thus items are there. It’s a supply and demand situation. We supply, they demand. If there’s too much supply, and not enough demand, then prices will drop (I would suggest watching the fruits and veggies in your grocery store for a year to see this IRL.) If the supply is limited and there is great demand, prices will sore.

Yes, it’s sick when some berk will go on and for some quick G’s drop his price for an outrageous amount that throws this out of whack for a bit. The thing I look for is, how many are they selling at that price? If it’s just one, then I ignore it. If there’s 5 or something from the same idiot, I’d say, buy it out and sell them again at your price. You’re limiting the supply when the demand is high to resell at the price of your choosing. If the berk puts over 5, then I’d be POed. Or if it happens for a period of time, again I’d be POed. If they had a Professions guild I’d take it up with the masters of the guild at the unfairness of the situation.

By Lucivias on Saturday, March 7th, 2009 at 7:09 pm

Seriously? Please go take an economics and business course in an actual college and STFU!

By Skulane on Sunday, March 8th, 2009 at 12:58 am

Lucivias who was that pointed at?
If it was me then im sorry that i have to work full time to help support my family if not disregarded this post.

By Mcnitro on Sunday, March 8th, 2009 at 5:26 am

Hello Gamers.

There are three types of AH profit that can make any player gold.

These are just like the real world.
High Risk, Risk and Low Risk.

When you start to make gold on WoW always start with the Low Risk option. Wether you think your a pro or not.

I have several ways to make 5,000 Gold in your first week of AH Buy/Sell and to start you will only need 200 Gold.

I will share one of these with you as it is the most time consuming and I have stopped actually doing it.

Install Auctioneer Advanced
Install Enchantrix

Create a Tauren Warrior (Horde) and run it to Thunder Bluff (City). Send this character 200g only.

Within the AH do the following.

Set start lvl range to 5
Leave final lvl range blank.
Set Type to Uncommen (Green)
Click on Armor
Search
Sort by Lowest Price

This will list all green (Disenchantable Items) from the lowest price which could be as small as 5 Silver buyout, Ive even seen some on there for 2 Silver. Or you may even find that the starting bid is 1 Gold.

All of the Biddable items will be on page one.

MAKE SURE AT THIS POINT - MAKE SURE YOU ALWAYS 100% OF THE TIME HAVE 10 GOLD ON YOU. This will be used for relisting costs.

Bid on EVERY SINGLE item if it has a bid option with a value of LESS than 50 Silver. This means if it listed for 50 Silver and 1 Copper DO NOT BID.

This is very important. Do not bid if over 50 Silver.

When you come to the Buyout items. BUYOUT EVERY SINGLE item that sells for less than 50 Silver.

Make sure you do not leave yourself with less than 10 Gold.

Once you reach your 10 Gold remaining. Go get the items from the Mailbox.

Go back to the AH and relist every single item at 2 Gold.

Do not go higher than 2 Gold.

After much much experiaence at this, you must adhere to this rule and the reason is as follows.

If you put items on at 3g or 2 gold 50s silver etc .. this means the market value will not allow for the undercutting of other players Auctions. The reason you want to be undercut is due to other players still wanting to actually put items on the AH at lower than 50 Silver. They will relist at under 50 Silver, but I found once you up the whole market price to over 2 Gold you will not come accross any Auctions at a very cheap price after approx 2 weeks.

This I trialled on 3 realms and each time if i listed for 2 Gold only it was sustainable, but when listing over 2 gold. No auctions were relisted at a low price. Because dont foget - YOU WANT PEOPLE TO RELIST AT A LOW PRICE. If you up the market too high then to rebuy later it becaomes too expensive. and non-profit.

Now that has been explained, The steps above need to be repeated at least once every 2 hours. You dont want othrs buying them at a low price when they could hav had to buy it for your 2 gold.

After the first 2 hour slot. you will have in your mailbox approx 5 sales. and 15 outbids.

This means allready - You most likely have:
120 Auctions (240g of Auctions = 120 at 2 gold each) Already 40 Gold profit in the AH.

Made profit of at least 7 Gold 50 Silver. (Purchase 5 at 50 silver = 2 Gold 50 Silver… 5 sales at 2 Gold = 10 Gold = Profit 7 Gold 50 Silver)

Have about 15 Outbids.

Outbids is money returned to you because some one bid higher than you did.

Use the money you made from Auctions to buy more items under 50 Silver. Relist at 2 Gold. Return in 2 hours.

At the end of the first 24 hour period I averaged about 3,200 Auctions. have not made actual Gold profit yet.

This is because you Buy/Sell/Buy you use gold made to rebuy more. Leaving wyou with a low gold count.

But in fact you have 3,200 Auctions. worth 2 Gold each.
TOTAL GOLD IN AUCTIONS VALUE = 6,400 Gold in the first day.

Do this for 4 Days. the time you have is the limit you give yourself.

I averaged in the first 4 days 6,100 Items. (12,200g)
——

Simply Relist your Expired Auctions up until the 5th day.

On te 6th Day - let ALL AUCTIONS EXPIRE.

Get a good friend or if you do enchanting yourself on main.. to Disenchant all items and then list all the mats from that on the AH in whole stacks for 5g.

The most i ever made from this process in my first week was 13,890 Gold.

To everyone, ghappy bidding. and i hope this helps anyone whos looking for a great LOW RISK gold maker.

Mcnitro - Jubie Thos (Horde)

By Balius on Sunday, March 8th, 2009 at 3:37 pm

All the items are imaginary, and only worth what you’re able to sell them for, a certain amount of imaginary money. Stop considering that amount as any sort of important, because it isn’t.

If someone is able to sell an item for 200G that you’re selling for 500, either he’s taking a loss (in which case you should buy his product outright and sell it at the fair rate since he’s unlikely to be flooding the market with product that looses him money) or he’s pricing fairly and you’re vastly overvaluing the item versus the cost to make it.

Sure, he’s popping the illusory bubble of value and rarity you’ve created, but the fact of the matter is that you’d been taking advantage of the good faith of buyers in setting the price so far above the cost to create in the first place.

By Nosf on Monday, March 9th, 2009 at 2:58 am

I really undestand the frustration, as selling ores and bars, i’ve also noticed the kind of people that just want that kick buck.
So what I’ve tryed to do, is to undo they’re work, instead of trying to lead some kind of etiquette movement.
It’s a no brainer, if I see some noob selling ores at 20g stack when the regular price is 25g, i just buyout and resell it.
By doing that, I’ve done 2 things, I’ve eliminated that noob’s competition, at least for some time, and I’ve corrected the price of my ores.

It might seem boring, but if u are already there to sell, 5mins won’t make a difference IF you care.

PS: Sorry about my english.

By Lilliah on Monday, March 9th, 2009 at 5:39 am

responding to Valaar: this is FREE ENTERPRISE. It’s what has made America great. haha

By nate on Monday, March 9th, 2009 at 10:48 am

Or you’ve witnessed changing market conditions. Unsuprisingly, demand for items has dropped off significantly since WotLK’s initial release. Take frozen orbs, near the start they were a rare commodity as only a handful of 80’s existed that could run the heroics to get them. On top of that, they’re required for the the epic level crafted BoE’s. Since these were the best pre-raiding gear, people needed them in droves. Now fast forward to present. Everyone can run heroics now, so the orbs are fairly common, and people are less concerned with the top of the line crafted materials because they’ve got naxx on farm for even better equipment. It should be obvious to conclude that the price of orbs would have dropped substantially, and guess what… it has.

As to you’re specific darkmoon card issue, again there is limited demand for it in the first place. Secondly the fact that cards are randomly produced devaule all the others. If you’ve ever played a trading card game, you know that out of all the cards, only a few are actually worthwhile. It’s these cards that become expensive, while the rest are pretty much worthless to everyone else. So with the darkmoon, Nobles are that rare chase card, while everything is mediocre at best. Thus you’re likely to have a glut of every other card since demand will be much lower for them, but they’re still being produced in attempts to make the high quality cards. So it’s not anything that people did conciously, but just market forces at work.

By nate on Monday, March 9th, 2009 at 11:18 am

also I’d like to point out that (in WoW at least) everything boils down to time spent. From the seller’s perspecitve how much time they spent gathering/processing the materials (and how much they value that time), and from the buyer’s perspective, how much of their time that item is worth to them. Generally an equilibrium price will occur when both parties value their time equally.

If someone values their time less than you, they will undercut you. Sometimes this is a one time deal, such as powerlevelling a trade, here I don’t really value my time for the money it makes, but for the skill-ups it brings. Thus I’m willing to sell for a loss to simply guarantee that they’ll sell to allow me to recoup some of my expenditure, but at the end of the day, I’m looking at this process as a money sink, not a money source.

However If I’m getting into the market for good, and value my time less, then I’m able to consistently sell at a lower price than you. Unless you can continuously buy out my stock, I’ve set the new price bar (assuming that demand is not outstripping my supply). So it may drive you out of the business, but it is by no means ‘unfair’. Even following you’re ‘undercut only a little’ principle, the fact that I value my time less, means that I’m willing to ride the curve down further than you. All this merely does is delay the time it will take to force you out of the market.

Also I may value my time as much or even more than you, but if I can find a more efficient way, then I’ll sell for less than you. You may go out and gather mats then mill and glyph them, but this process might have an overall low gold per time flow. Whereas me buying cheap herbs from the AH and then glyphing them might have less profit per sale, it might have an overall gold/time ratio.

Also @Valaar you seem to insiutate that anyone undercutting you must be a gold farmer. Which I think is really just relying on an ad-hominem attack. I’ve now listed several legitimate reasons on why you might be consistently undercut, all of which have nothing to do with ethics or morals of the situation

TLDR; If someone values their time such that they can consistently undercut you, it’s not ‘unfair’ it’s just economics.

By Xian on Tuesday, March 17th, 2009 at 2:33 pm

“I often post at the same buyout as other people do (I may undercut their bid price a little).” (written by Marex)

I usually do the same when I actually sell stuff on the AH. (which I haven’t done in some time due to most of it not selling)